Topic: My two cents worth

Hello, just wanted to give some feedback here. 

Been playing for less than a week, mucking around basically.  What caught my eye was the idea of piloting giant walking death machines (awesome robot jox!), so I actually have signed up for early access.

But lately, I have been feeling kinda deflated with the game.  Most of the mmo's I play or used to play can be classified as of the typical fare (WAR, DAOC, UO, never played EVE, just know its a spaceship game)  And my game preference was just killing things,  I don't like farming/harvesting/mining/crafting or whatever you may call it. 

I mainly like looking for new mobs to kill, exploring the game world, figuring out tactics for a tough mob and of course reveling in the loot afterwards.  But unfortunately it seems that the only way to get ahead in this game is to do what I hate the most. 

Because most of the time I have to buy bullets as drops as too low to sustain killing, and whatever drops I do get can't even be sold on the market because of no demand or if there is a demand the price doesn't even cover the cost of repair.

(Btw, I only handle drones and named drones, everything else chews me up real quick, kiting and whatnot wastes even more ammo because of LOS so I just stuck with the drones for now.)

I would think being able to sell to an npc everything in any state would be crucial for a game economy as if everything was player determined, pretty soon all the lowbie stuff would be worthless.  And then how would new players be able to sustain themselves.

It just strikes me as inconsistent that this would be labeled as a sandbox game when there is only one way to consistently get ahead.  (I was of the idea missions could be an equalizer but I read somewhere that the dev's really don't care much about them so I assume they won't be expanded substantially.)

Anyways. just my thought's here.  I do hope I do get to like this game and play it for a while, but if I really need to mine/harvest/manufacture here to get anywhere I definitely won't be continuing past my early access sub.

Take care all.

Re: My two cents worth

Mekaniko wrote:

I would think being able to sell to an npc everything in any state would be crucial for a game economy as if everything was player determined, pretty soon all the lowbie stuff would be worthless.  And then how would new players be able to sustain themselves.

If the game works correctly, loot won't be worthless, it will have the value, or slightly more depending on a few things, of the materials that you can obtain via recycling.

The problem is, people do not understand how those mechanics work :-(


I do not think NPC market is required but no doubt it would be great help for the game.

Re: My two cents worth

you do not have to do do what you hate exept for the farming.
i don't know any MMO in which you do not have to do it at a time or another and in form or another.

do assignements, explore more zone, try to figure out how to manage more higher target.
sell everything unecessary and buy a better Mech (don't forget weapons and ammo ;-)).

and if you are not an exclusive solo player, joined a corpo to fulfill you in exchange of your drop.

Re: My two cents worth

Sounds like your not putting up sell orders.  If the instant prices you get for selling something are not what you can live with, create a sell order for the item. 

The instant prices shouldn't be your main source of selling outside of kernals maybe.  You'll get much more with sell orders. 

You don't have to mine, harvest, or build things.  BUT, you do have to learn how to play the market.

And player economies work great. They are however a little rough in the very beginning, but long term, noob items never become worthless. They will always have value.

this game is sandbox, just like it says.  There is no one way to get ahead, the only thing every needs is to make good use of the market.  Everything else is up to you.  Including how you use the market to get ahead.  But the market is the central theme that ties everything together.  The foundation of the game it is!

Last edited by Hadouken (2010-10-28 04:00:24)

Re: My two cents worth

So your solution is to spend what little nic you have (after ammo costs) to repair stnd loot and then hope someone buys it? Do ppl actually buy stnd light autocannons and such? I thought it wasn't worth the cost for those who can afford it especially when they are able too loot it faster than a new player.

I was in the same situation and ended up creating a miner alt to make myself ammo. Its hard to see any other option initially to make a profit. I think rebalancing of assignment rewards will fix this somewhat.

Last edited by Weapon X (2010-10-28 04:20:45)

Re: My two cents worth

Weapon X wrote:

So your solution is to spend what little nic you have (after ammo costs) to repair stnd loot and then hope someone buys it? Do ppl actually buy stnd light autocannons and such? I thought it wasn't worth the cost for those who can afford it especially when they are able too loot it faster than a new player.

I was in the same situation and ended up creating a miner alt to make myself ammo. Its hard to see any other option initially to make a profit. I think rebalancing of assignment rewards will fix this somewhat.


My point exactly.  If I need to make a miner/harvester, I'm done with this game.

Re: My two cents worth

You can always get a stockpile of bullets from getting a new arkhe. (strip and destroy). But it seems kinda silly way to get started and wrong.

Edit: I actually did this to get bullets initially and farm up so I could make EM slugs (since there were none on the market at the time)

Last edited by Weapon X (2010-10-28 05:46:47)

Re: My two cents worth

Don't worry, at launch it will be very different. Currently, those of us who want to build the market, have no desire to do so with the launch wipe coming soon.

I can assure you, I'll have buy/sell orders up for everything in the game within the first month. And at reasonable prices by month 2.

Your just in a beta phase with no real market.

Re: My two cents worth

Hadouken wrote:

Sounds like your not putting up sell orders.  If the instant prices you get for selling something are not what you can live with, create a sell order for the item. 

The instant prices shouldn't be your main source of selling outside of kernals maybe.  You'll get much more with sell orders. 

You don't have to mine, harvest, or build things.  BUT, you do have to learn how to play the market.

And player economies work great. They are however a little rough in the very beginning, but long term, noob items never become worthless. They will always have value.

this game is sandbox, just like it says.  There is no one way to get ahead, the only thing every needs is to make good use of the market.  Everything else is up to you.  Including how you use the market to get ahead.  But the market is the central theme that ties everything together.  The foundation of the game it is!


I have a question about this.    When I look at the market information I assume the sell and buy orders are from players,  and whenever I do sell it seems that the price I get is the lowest price on the demand columns.

So in the case of a looted light mag gun which has to be repaired for 6k nic and the demand price is 5k nic, seems a losing scenario there.  Unless as you say I try my luck and basically put out a sell ad, just seems iffy ( I mean, like how many times can I sell 27 autocannons everyday?).  IMO, i think the market for items would be helped if there was a method of depreciation or disrepair on each item so there would be continuous demand.

Anyways, just trying to get my head around this.

Re: My two cents worth

Mekaniko wrote:
Hadouken wrote:

Sounds like your not putting up sell orders.  If the instant prices you get for selling something are not what you can live with, create a sell order for the item. 

The instant prices shouldn't be your main source of selling outside of kernals maybe.  You'll get much more with sell orders. 

You don't have to mine, harvest, or build things.  BUT, you do have to learn how to play the market.

And player economies work great. They are however a little rough in the very beginning, but long term, noob items never become worthless. They will always have value.

this game is sandbox, just like it says.  There is no one way to get ahead, the only thing every needs is to make good use of the market.  Everything else is up to you.  Including how you use the market to get ahead.  But the market is the central theme that ties everything together.  The foundation of the game it is!


I have a question about this.    When I look at the market information I assume the sell and buy orders are from players,  and whenever I do sell it seems that the price I get is the lowest price on the demand columns.

So in the case of a looted light mag gun which has to be repaired for 6k nic and the demand price is 5k nic, seems a losing scenario there.  Unless as you say I try my luck and basically put out a sell ad, just seems iffy ( I mean, like how many times can I sell 27 autocannons everyday?).  IMO, i think the market for items would be helped if there was a method of depreciation or disrepair on each item so there would be continuous demand.

Anyways, just trying to get my head around this.

Items are removed from the game every time someones robot gets blown up.  The robot, and all the equipment on it is gone for good.  And, even end game people in pvp areas will be piloting light robots. And they will still buy the low noobie weapons for those mechs.  Why?  The robot is likely going to blow up.  People usually only use high end equipment for special situations.  Average pvp is done in the cheap stuff, things people don't mind if they lose. 

As far buy orders, people WILL buy them.  Its their only choice.  Its a player economy and we have to keep replacing stuff when it gets blown up.  There will always be a demand for all items. Always.  How do I know?  Am I just guessing and hoping the system works? No.  Eve online uses the same type of player economy and market system, and its proven to work great. 

As Alexander said, its Beta.  Most of us are not putting in full effort into game with a wipe coming.  Things will be much better come release, but still a tad rocky for probably the first month as we all get the foundation for the market setup, but the system has been proven to work amazingly well in Eve and there's no reason it shouldn't work here as well. 

Oh, and when you do sell, it shows you the Buy order that is currently offering the highest price for that item.  This will generaly ALWAYS be lower then market value.  Buy orders are about getting things cheap, buying off the people that can't wait a couple days for a sell order to complete and just want the money now.  Its always better to put up sell order unless your in a big hurry. 

But don't worry, your stuff will sell.  All items will be in constant demand as they are continously being removed from the game ever time someone dies.

Re: My two cents worth

Mekaniko wrote:
Weapon X wrote:

So your solution is to spend what little nic you have (after ammo costs) to repair stnd loot and then hope someone buys it? Do ppl actually buy stnd light autocannons and such? I thought it wasn't worth the cost for those who can afford it especially when they are able too loot it faster than a new player.

I was in the same situation and ended up creating a miner alt to make myself ammo. Its hard to see any other option initially to make a profit. I think rebalancing of assignment rewards will fix this somewhat.


My point exactly.  If I need to make a miner/harvester, I'm done with this game.

You absolutely will not have to mine, harvest, or build things if you don't want to.  Dedicated crafters can supply in very large amounts.   The crafter to fighter ratio won't be a problem.  Again, i'm basing this on my experiences with Eve, but I see no reason why it won't hold true here as well.

Re: My two cents worth

It seems strange to me, that nobody recommends to join a corporation.
You provide loot and protective services to them and receive in exchange ammo and better equip.

Re: My two cents worth

Reiss Wolf wrote:

It seems strange to me, that nobody recommends to join a corporation.
You provide loot and protective services to them and receive in exchange ammo and better equip.

Ah yes, the single best advice you can be given. Don't play by yourself, join a corp.

Re: My two cents worth

Hadouken wrote:
Reiss Wolf wrote:

It seems strange to me, that nobody recommends to join a corporation.
You provide loot and protective services to them and receive in exchange ammo and better equip.

Ah yes, the single best advice you can be given. Don't play by yourself, join a corp.


Ah well, time zone differences. UCT +8

Re: My two cents worth

Lots of good advice in here, stay with it through Beta. In the live game for instance, I myself will have several characters / a PvP fighter, a builder and a miner. (miner while doing online classes * which btw Perpetuum works just fine with Cisco Packet tracer running at the same time)
builder for the many lines of CT's and my fun times PvPer.
I will be far , far from alone in this set up and the market will flourish in likely over production of goods. There are only a few producers in my current corp and many fighters. The corp culture in this game works, and for the most part, is Not, an option. While Eve and some other games give a fairly positive route for solo play, this game is nearly exclusively in the realm of group play. While a bit frustrating at first for new players, once You find the right group things are easier than You have yet to imagine. In other words, You are paying for stuff as a solo our new corp members get for free and often in abundance. It's much like RL, if You have a free place to live, food to eat and a car then even a little $ goes a long way. Finding the right corp should honestly be the first objective of every new player. Free light bots, free ammo and fittings in exchange for Kernals. You keep the rest of the loot, that is how it usually works * and You have back up and/or other peeps to help You take on the tuffer spawns.
"well , I want to play solo" < then You probably want to play a different game
although solo minded players can also fit very well into corps as scouts, and tacklers if and when they choose to join in group play.
All the advice above is good, if You join up with a good corp You will be playing a whole different game. Give that a chance before You decide.