Re: delete a character refund EP

Weapon X wrote:

I don't like the idea about a spark upgrade simply cause its basically copying another eve feature. Pretty sure the devs want to steer away from doing that and create their own.


Yeah throwing ideas out to keep people coming up with better ideas. smile

Perpetuum Community Wizard Guy!
For beginning video tutorials please visit: http://gremrod.wordpress.com
Perpetuum Short stories: http://perpetuumfiles.wordpress.com/ Written by me.

Re: delete a character refund EP

if you want you can compare features to many, many...... other games or environnements.
but if the idea suit well and is good, why not use to it (and make it better wink ).

upgrade hardware and software are very common in SF, cyber ; Cyberpunk, MW, GITS, TRON, Exteel,... not only in EVE, even in StarWars.

and in the context of Perpetuum it make a perfect match.
you are not physicaly present so the only things you can do are :
upgrade your hardware or upgrade your software, put a strange name or a common one but it's the only way to do so.

and yes it keep us busy lol

Last edited by XrayIT (2010-10-29 09:57:52)

Re: delete a character refund EP

Why refunding EP only? Why not refund lost bots as well?


Reimbursement of player errors is stupid.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Maynard Benaui wrote:

... because people who have to do something they do not enjoy are usually those who are leaving the game as well...

what else

Re: delete a character refund EP

Bots can be replaced actively in game. EP points once spent can't be. You mess up on character generation, spend your EP, then realize you messed up your stats, you can't fix that.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Lege wrote:

Bots can be replaced actively in game. EP points once spent can't be. You mess up on character generation, spend your EP, then realize you messed up your stats, you can't fix that.

Do you want every game to come with some giant UNDO button for every time you f*ck up?

Spending your EP is a very important part of the game and should not be taken lightly.  Even if you do spend it badly, as long as you did decent attribute distribution (read: as much in 1 area as possible) you'll be just fine in the long run.

Re: delete a character refund EP

There is no reason not to have an undo button. Its all about enhancing the new player experience.

Tired of seeing all the pro lets keep things harsh cause its a sandbox opinions on these forums.

Tbh when I did my char creation it didn't really explain the EP system at all. And with soo many options to change your attributes and what they actually do its not difficult for someone to try and create a balanced char and then spend their ep on non fundamental skills.

You can't expect everyone to read the forums for advice. The creation process should be clearer and more intuitive. Why make something difficult for no reason?

Re: delete a character refund EP

difficult and crucial to the future, and without an option to correct your mistake.
we don't want anyone to be able to undo at anytime without consequences, and we don't want an easy game.

but, I think, we all want a game full of players, vet as noob, hardcore as others.
no undo, can mean the departure of too many uninformed/young/noob,... players.

Re: delete a character refund EP

It would be nice to refund a set amount of EP if you decide to do a reset. As an example I have spent 5,000 EP to build my character but decide that I made a mistake. I should be able to reset and refund up a max of say 2,000. The amount could be a set amount (not a percentage) and any EP spent on top of that amount is lost.

It would give a way for new characters to reset (without losing much) but also penalize a mature character for making a change.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Next stop: Save / Load

Re: delete a character refund EP

You can't make an irretrievable mistake with your EP, because it's not limited. If you put it in a skill and then decide you don't need that skill, it doesn't matter because you just wait for some more and put it elsewhere. So why refund it?

You can only make irretrievable mistakes with your attributes.

Also (sorry I'm new), what are the consequencing of *** up your attributes? Lower bonuses, and therefore a higher EP requirement for your build? Or does a low stat preclude you from certain options completely, in that you can never obtain the maximum possible enhancement level?

Going back to EP, when you reroll is it a permanent set back, because you can never catch up in terms of actual EP compared to vets? Or is there a "power plateau" beyond which more EP only grants you additional builds rather than just enhancing your current one?

As an example, say an effective combat pilot in one line of robots requires 100,000 EP, beyond that any extra EP just allows you to use different robots. (The figure is just an example, I have no idea how much is really required).

This would mean you can "effectively" catch up even if your actual EP count is lower than someone elses.

So therefore all a mistake does is cost you extra time, which is the same in any MMO, and which is as it should be.

Last edited by Campana (2010-11-01 21:09:29)

And just look at this fail beta.  What the *** is a beta that doesn't crash?  The Npc's don't warp, characters don't get stuck in terrain, graphics don't glitch. I mean sersiously!  What are the Dev's smoking?  Another fail from the fail devs. Original post by Hadouken

Re: delete a character refund EP

Campana wrote:

You can't make an irretrievable mistake with your EP, because it's not limited. If you put it in a skill and then decide you don't need that skill, it doesn't matter because you just wait for some more and put it elsewhere. So why refund it?

You can only make irretrievable mistakes with your attributes.

Also (sorry I'm new), what are the consequencing of *** up your attributes? Lower bonuses, and therefore a higher EP requirement for your build? Or does a low stat preclude you from certain options completely, in that you can never obtain the maximum possible enhancement level?

Going back to EP, when you reroll is it a permanent set back, because you can never catch up in terms of actual EP compared to vets? Or is there a "power plateau" beyond which more EP only grants you additional builds rather than just enhancing your current one?

As an example, say an effective combat pilot in one line of robots requires 100,000 EP, beyond that any extra EP just allows you to use different robots. (The figure is just an example, I have no idea how much is really required).

This would mean you can "effectively" catch up even if your actual EP count is lower than someone elses.

So therefore all a mistake does is cost you extra time, which is the same in any MMO, and which is as it should be.

There's no real reason to refund it.

Attributes make skills cost less EP, but your never locked out of getting any extension you want.

You can never catch up to the Vets in total points, but there is a power plateau.  The old school vets have more options. But it doesn't actually take that long to be competitive with one certain build.

You are correct that mistakes only cost some extra time.  Nothing more.  There is no breaking your character to the point of useless.  Just don't have your combat attributes at 1 if you want to go combat and your fine. 

Because this is a group based mmo, and light mechs are always useful, even in end game pvp, its actually really easy to get to the point where you can compete with the vets. As long as you join a good corp/guild. 

The only people that are truly screwed by starting late or rerolling for some reason, are the people that want to solo pvp.  With only a month of skills and a cheap robot, you can be in pvp areas with the big boys.  You'll need to stay with the herd till your bigger, but you'll be strong enough to contribute.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Eventually you can get to 10 in everything. The problem is getting there and if you mess up, your going to be behind a lot. Roughly 8 months of spending EP on a combat agent and your "maxxed" for one type of robot. If your 2 months behind from making mistakes your at a serious disadvantage til you have your 8 months in.

Re: delete a character refund EP

at no time, it was question to be able to delete an agent when you want and be refund.

no way to refund a deleted character after a month or more.
you have to rapidly learn (and read tongue) the game mechanismes and deal with it, or face the consequences.
the point is to let a little time for new players to make mistakes and choose a path,  before it's too late.

I am for a mecanisme of defense for new players, but not to make the game too easy and without consequences.
so the only acceptable solution is 1 ticket on the 1 agent with a limited time to do so, 1-2 week, 1 month but no more.

Re: delete a character refund EP

I am not aware of any game on the market that would let you transfer all XP/points to another character once you decide to re-roll.

What makes Perpetuum so special that it should have such feature?

Re: delete a character refund EP

Nothing. It doesn't need a refund system. It just needs to warn noobs of the dangers of spending EP because knowing where they want to spend it as well as level 6+ being extra expensive.

Re: delete a character refund EP

my point is not about the EP, and you can add a refund fee to delete and recover, but more about atributte, initial corpo and your character evolution if you make a mistake.

again, in no other game (expect EVE maybe) you can't do something to catch the gap if you reroll, play more, be PL,... in the case of Perpetuum you lose EP which means you loose time, you can't regain in any way.

Re: delete a character refund EP

XrayIT wrote:

someone can explain to me, the need of loosing your EP when you delete a char ?
it's a big lost of game time and EP, why no refund, it doesn't unbalanced the game if you do ?

This is a stupid idée

Re: delete a character refund EP

XrayIT wrote:

in the case of Perpetuum you lose EP which means you loose time

When I delete lvl 80 char, I lose time too.

Sorry, you are making no point.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Wouldn't the best solution to be, have the character creation process fully explain what the attributes do?  currently, well when i made my character, it did not explain how the attributes effect skill gains. 

Allowing new players to reroll to fix mistakes honestly seems like the hard way when someone coudle just type up a quick paragraph or two to explain everything thats going on during character creation.

Re: delete a character refund EP

XrayIT wrote:

my point is not about the EP, and you can add a refund fee to delete and recover

You dismiss this idea as not being the topic at hand, but at the same time assert your answer for it.  Basically ignoring other arguments and trying to change the subject while still getting in the last word.

You, sir, are a troll.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Hadouken wrote:

Wouldn't the best solution to be, have the character creation process fully explain what the attributes do?  currently, well when i made my character, it did not explain how the attributes effect skill gains. 

Allowing new players to reroll to fix mistakes honestly seems like the hard way when someone coudle just type up a quick paragraph or two to explain everything thats going on during character creation.

I agree that the attributes and their effect on your entire game experience do need some clarification and leniency, but not very much.

Maybe for a week after the first character is created you could delete and refund your EP, but after that first week of your FIRST character EVER made you are not able to do this.  I still dont even like my idea, but some sort of help should be in place for new characters learning how the game works without it affecting their character long term.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Well, you could start with equal attributes in all areas and after a week or two, you could be able to pick your spark or w/e to distribute 'the rest' of the attribute points.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Ok to set my understanding i created an industrialist char in stEve and worked out after some time that actually i wanted to shoot people, so i was a really gimped when i first went and got involved in pvp, however after many months i managed to reach the level where i could compete.

So thats great, i had an industrialist who could mine, refine, kill etc etc, however, if you want a large player base then i think you do need a respec option of some sort. 

I accepted my decisions and spent many years getting the skills i needed, but and its a big butt, not all of us are mature, competitive, anally retentive etc to perservere with that so...

to keep the population going and have vibrant active mmo world we need to allow people that dont read the forums, dont read the guides and just download the client and 'arrive' to at least learn by their mistakes, think feck thats all wrong and restart.

There shouldnt be a blanket, i press this button to reset all my ep's, but a one off, i want to start again will help the players that simply want to jump in keep playing and help keep the game world active

Re: delete a character refund EP

After reading this whole thread through, I decided to throw my coins into the basket aswell.

I understand what the TS want to achieve. I can only refer to myself, when i did started my journey in Nia, before the open beta, i myself, did *beep* it up. While it doesnt matter to me, that much, it may potentially put someone else off.

Now, when creating a brand new character, the new player should in some form or another, be informed about _how_ the attributes work, and what role they actually play. As it is now, unless something has changed since i made this current and other chars before this, the new player will have to "just figure it out".

Now, dont say again, what has allready been said: "this is how it works" "oh, you messed up, to bad" or something else not really contributing. I am a "hardcore player" myself, BUT, this is not for me, this is for thoose who is not. Sadly, in any game, hardcore players and veterans seem to have this kind of attitude which i myself dont understand. I think, or hope, that 'we', the veterans of Nia can put this attitude aside, and instead try to make things a bit more welcoming for new agents, wether or not they are hardcore, or play only on the weekends.

Well, sure, this can be as it is, but then the new player in my opinion _must_ be given the chance to actually re-create himself. Give the new player a grace period of 3-5 days with no strings attached. (counting from the time when he actually does (not log in, but rather "enters" the world) for the very first time on whatever char that might be.

I'd say, within this very short, limited amount of time, give them free hands to basically, re-create as they feel fit. After this period, it shouldnt be possible _at all_ for anyone in _any_ way. The only thing what would stay, is the EP's. No item, no nothing other than the EP's.

This would allow the new player to try things out, before he decides. The little amount of EP we are talking about here, is in the long run, not worth anything, what will be more worth for the newly starting player, is the chance of getting his attributes where he wants them and not get penalised so to speak, for not studying the attribute system for 3 hours or a week before he can make his char smile

===Following is OT but still somewhat related somehow===

Now, there where some talk about "implants" and/or other "attribute boosting" items/software related uh "things"..

In regards to this, I have wondered about why in each account, we can have 3 agents? This is not eve (no *** sherlock lol) and basically, we are agents controlling theese machines/robots on planet Nia using sparks, or something what would be more similar to "software" in other terms. Now, wouldnt it be more close to the story, if 1 account was equal to 1 agent and that agent, can have 3 sparks or 3 different programs, that he could uploaded to his or hers machine/robot? This means, that I would always be Traburi, but i could be using my combat spark, or industry spark or my <whatever> spark.

===OT done===

As said, my coins. Read, understand, hit me hard if im way off or add constructive feedback wether it is saying im wrong or zomg you are *beep* wrong. Just keep it constructive, it's up to any and each of us to throw our ideas out here and make this a even better game than what it allready is smile