Topic: delete a character refund EP

someone can explain to me, the need of loosing your EP when you delete a char ?
it's a big lost of game time and EP, why no refund, it doesn't unbalanced the game if you do ?

Re: delete a character refund EP

you dont get a refund

Grow up or die

Re: delete a character refund EP

XrayIT wrote:

someone can explain to me, the need of loosing your EP when you delete a char ?
it's a big lost of game time and EP, why no refund, it doesn't unbalanced the game if you do ?

Because of the very same reasons there is no EP respec.

Re: delete a character refund EP

We don't really want people to be able to delete and remake with no penalty do we?  Why would you need to delete?  Piss off to many people? just robbed a corp blind?  Makes it too easy to be an asshole and get away with it. 

But really, what game lets you level up a cleric to level 50 and then trade that character in for a level 50 fighter?  Its unbalancing. 

Its really easy to transfer money around.  Max out your mining, make money, reroll a combat toon for a few weeks, reroll back to a miner, reroll to industry, basicaly free respecs with the cost of having to move money around.  Too easy in my opinion.

Re: delete a character refund EP

I'd like to see a micro-transaction system LATER in the game that lets you reset everything but the name but it's honestly unbalanced and I doubt it will get added ever.

Re: delete a character refund EP

I'm aware of the unbalanced issue and the work around.
I did not mind being able to do so at will, just one time after creation or another mecanisme more balanced
It's time based on a fixed value for everyone, no chance to grab the gap if you play more ; moreover, EP are account wide not bind to one agent.

the game is very complex to apprehend and making a mistake in this case is very penalizing

I think, a 15 days or a single ticket, for the first agent on the account to be able to respect is a good idea : errare humanum est !

P.S. for the MMO letting you respect : Champion online tongue or City in a lesser range, Guild Wars, EVE wink

Re: delete a character refund EP

Hadouken said it perfectly:

But really, what game lets you level up a cleric to level 50 and then trade that character in for a level 50 fighter?  Its unbalancing.


Sure, this is a time based game, but your decisions on where you spend your EP still matter.  If you *** up and use your skill points in places you really shouldnt (low attribute bonuses, mining skills on a fighter, etc) then you are paying for your mistakes in the game.  Managing your character/s is a major part of the skill that this game involves.


If anything close to this were to be implemented, I would say it would never give back 100% EP.  You would lose at least 20% and STILL should have to pay to have it done.  The possibilities for abusing this are way too high to not have some sort of EP degradation and cost.

And if you think this is just like a respec you're COMPLETELY WRONG.   This is equivalent to completely changing your class and everything about it, and still being able to keep all your gear and level.

Re: delete a character refund EP

there is no respec option...
but on the other hand - there is also no loss of anything character based if you get shot down.

theres also no need to respec skills, because there is no limit on how many you can learn or restriction that prevents you from just raising the one that fits your more then the one you already have. (long sentence)

IF, and really, IF any option, then probably something about the attributes could be implemented, as they take a major role at how much EP you will have to spend on those other extensions. Neoxx already pointed that out there.

“The truth is balance. However the opposite of truth, which is unbalance, may not be a lie.”
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Re: delete a character refund EP

i'm ok for the extention point of view, you can train what you want, when you want.
but if you made the mistake at creation with the choice of your corporation, school, profession it's an attribute issue.
you can do nothing else than delete the agent and loose all the time you have put in it, or making another one and again loosing or waiting for the equal amount of time before feeling good again.

so, be able to delete or fully respect the first agent on the account for a short period of time could help.

it's just the beta, and it's my case roll and it's very frustrating.

i'm not against the penality suggestion, but not loosing all the EP

Re: delete a character refund EP

XrayIT wrote:

i'm ok for the extention point of view, you can train what you want, when you want.
but if you made the mistake at creation with the choice of your corporation, school, profession it's an attribute issue.
you can do nothing else than delete the agent and loose all the time you have put in it, or making another one and again loosing or waiting for the equal amount of time before feeling good again.

so, be able to delete or fully respect the first agent on the account for a short period of time could help.

it's just the beta, and it's my case roll and it's very frustrating.

i'm not against the penality suggestion, but not loosing all the EP

I look at it like this.....

Lets say you roll a toon in WOW and level that toon to 50 or 80 and decide you don't like the class. If you delete the toon would it make since to be able to take those levels you worked on and apply them to a newly created toon?

IMO, no.

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Re: delete a character refund EP

but if I want I can spend more time to catch the gap.
and honestly you can hardly fully messed up your char in WOW like in PERP, EVE or other complexe game. they are classes based game, read the class like it or not (maybe test it for few levels).

in Perpetuum YOU build your Char based on what you have access and understand or test.
definitly not the same.

Re: delete a character refund EP

XrayIT wrote:

but if I want I can spend more time to catch the gap.
and honestly you can hardly fully messed up your char in WOW like in PERP, EVE or other complexe game. they are classes based game, read the class like it or not (maybe test it for few levels).

in Perpetuum YOU build your Char based on what you have access and understand or test.
definitly not the same.

This is why I might be in favor of some system that allows limited reallocation of attributes over a long period of time, but its obviously a very tricky subject.

If you do happen to mess up your attribute build, the only thing you can do is either suck it up, or rationalize that its better in the long run to remake your character.

Any solution would need to be a more long term process to avoid people from swapping back and forth between builds quickly to gain the EP edge.  LIke doing certain assignments to give you more knowledge of a certain subject that moves 1 point to a different attribute.  It takes time and effort to achieve this, and not just some cooldown timer or instant buy item.

Re: delete a character refund EP

hence the limit of 1 try and time do use it and onlu on the first agent on your acount.

but i agree, tricky subject.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Read, learn, have a little patience. My bot will prolly start of industry and extraction focussed and I know combat will suffer for some time, build for your playstyle, if Perp keeps going right direction in time will have the EP for the combat stuff aswell.

Repecs are for the leet, fotm, gimme gimme gimme crowd.

Limited respec for the first coupla days from toon creation will save new players who really messed up but not those just trying to play the angles.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Neoxx wrote:
XrayIT wrote:

but if I want I can spend more time to catch the gap.
and honestly you can hardly fully messed up your char in WOW like in PERP, EVE or other complexe game. they are classes based game, read the class like it or not (maybe test it for few levels).

in Perpetuum YOU build your Char based on what you have access and understand or test.
definitly not the same.

This is why I might be in favor of some system that allows limited reallocation of attributes over a long period of time, but its obviously a very tricky subject.

If you do happen to mess up your attribute build, the only thing you can do is either suck it up, or rationalize that its better in the long run to remake your character.

Any solution would need to be a more long term process to avoid people from swapping back and forth between builds quickly to gain the EP edge.  LIke doing certain assignments to give you more knowledge of a certain subject that moves 1 point to a different attribute.  It takes time and effort to achieve this, and not just some cooldown timer or instant buy item.

I think an approach would be to give the players a new set of extensions that affect attributes, maybe?

Crythos wrote:

Read, learn, have a little patience. My bot will prolly start of industry and extraction focussed and I know combat will suffer for some time, build for your playstyle, if Perp keeps going right direction in time will have the EP for the combat stuff aswell.

Repecs are for the leet, fotm, gimme gimme gimme crowd.

Limited respec for the first coupla days from toon creation will save new players who really messed up but not those just trying to play the angles.

I think a limited respec could work at some point for new players. but yes it would need to be limited to a very specific amount of time and needs to be clear to the player they have the option and it is gone after X amount of days.

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Re: delete a character refund EP

It's a lot different than the wow analogy. At least levelling another class is an active thing, not a passive wait for points thing, while everyone else who didn't mess up is much stronger than you now.
Sure down the road 8 months or so, when you start hitting 10s in all your skills, it will even out, but that is still months and months of being behind.

Last edited by Lege (2010-10-28 00:11:25)

Re: delete a character refund EP

Like I said before just allow new accounts/ first use of a char slot, an ep refund spent on skills at char deletion for a limited time limit after creation. This gives players 3 chances to get it right. Shorten the time deletion on this initial char (24 hrs is a bit long you might as well keep playing).

Re: delete a character refund EP

GM Gremrod wrote:

I think a limited respec could work at some point for new players. but yes it would need to be limited to a very specific amount of time and needs to be clear to the player they have the option and it is gone after X amount of days.

I think this is a good option.  Maybe for the first week or two allow people to redo the creation process, but keep the spent EP the same.  I can see new players making mistakes in character creation fairly often.

Re: delete a character refund EP

exactly what I was saying from the start.

1 ticket (or delete) with refund (maybe not fully) and only for the first char on the account and during the first month (maybe less, but think about causual too)

Re: delete a character refund EP

I definitely do *not* want to see a set of extensions that effect attribute gain. Learning skills in Eve were a horrible time sink and made "efficiency" into sitting around for 2 and a half months doing nothing.

As far as limited refunds, I think under normal circumstances they aren't necessary. If a new player logs in for the first time and makes an industrial character but two days later realizes they want to play combat instead, they only lose two days of EP to change  (which in the long run means nothing, especially compared to staying in a role you don't like).

The same logic applies for a character "refund" of points to redistribute. If you start a combat character and put some points into guns instead of missiles, you already can completely restart the character losing ONLY what you spend on missiles (because EP is ALREADY transferred if you make a new character).

This isn't Eve. Age of the character means nothing. A new character could have 40k EP given to him at creation that was "earned" on a different character. You can make a brand new character and be in a heavy mech in 15 minutes if you've saved the EP's. Therefore, you are ONLY going to "lose" EP's that you spend. In the case of a new character that will be negligible at best, especially considering that low end levels are 24 hours of EP tops.

Overcomplicating things is not necessary.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Merrek wrote:

I definitely do *not* want to see a set of extensions that effect attribute gain. Learning skills in Eve were a horrible time sink and made "efficiency" into sitting around for 2 and a half months doing nothing.

Yeah you bring up a very negative thing about extensions that would affect attributes. I agree the more I think about it.

Maybe just some type of spark upgrade?

1. A spark that upgrades Military attributes.
2. A spark that upgrades Industry attributes.
3. A spark that upgrades Logistics attributes.

Only one can put used at a time and are lost when removed.

Of course they are lost when you get blown up.....

Would anyone see this approach making it more complex then what is needed?

Anyone else have some other ideas?

Edit: But to be clear no new features will happen until some time in the future after release.

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Perpetuum Short stories: http://perpetuumfiles.wordpress.com/ Written by me.

Re: delete a character refund EP

Merrek, i see your point
but think about player who don't play every day, yes they exist wink
in this case you loose more than few days of EP for a single error, without the chance to recover.

and, don't want to be harsh, but READ the propositions : only 1 time, for 1 char the first, and limited time to use it.
really limit the cheating.

I haven't play EVE for the moment, but after reading about the copy, I've done my job and as far as I know ; players and the DEV team are complaining about the learning skills. and after reading, I can say it's really creepy ; and a big waste of time.

some specialized CPU to boost attributes, or plug-ins to add functionality.
of course, destroyed at death, don't know for the mobility but linked to the sparks in a way

Re: delete a character refund EP

GM Gremrod wrote:

Maybe just some type of spark upgrade?

1. A spark that upgrades Military attributes.
2. A spark that upgrades Industry attributes.
3. A spark that upgrades Logistics attributes.

Only one can put used at a time and are lost when removed.

Of course they are lost when you get blown up.....

Would anyone see this approach making it more complex then what is needed?

Anyone else have some other ideas?

Edit: But to be clear no new features will happen until some time in the future after release.


This work work pretty much like Implants. I like the idea of being able to boost "off-spec" stats. For example, if I'm an industry character but want to spend a couple weeks to get into an assult mech to run missions for kernels, I could just put in a "Military" implant and help that along faster. Same goes for any other role dabbling in any other role. It is a better alternative to setting permanent attributes for military when I will only use it some, or going without and paying out the wahzoo in extra EP just to get a few combat skills.

And XrayIT, I do see what the proposition suggests, I'm just saying that if you looking at only once, for one character, in the very beginning, you are talking about a highly negliable amount of EP and it isn't worth yet another system in an already complex game. The only reason I'd see something like this as viable is for preorders because you can potentially dump 20 days worth of training into a skill that you might have read wrong on accident and doesn't help you, but that isn't the same as a guy playing for 2 days and restarting. Not by a long shot.

Re: delete a character refund EP

New char at launch. Spends their starting EP on wrong skills. Told they have to wait 2 days for EP to fix/ get the right ones. Dunno about you but I doubt ppl have that kind of patience, especially when most other mmos have a reroll function without penalty.

I don't like the idea about a spark upgrade simply cause its basically copying another eve feature. Pretty sure the devs want to steer away from doing that and create their own.

Last edited by Weapon X (2010-10-29 01:25:45)

Re: delete a character refund EP

"Character Restructuring"

Quoting myself:

... I like the idea of a button on the login screen labelled "Restructure Character". This would leave all assets intact as well as the character name but would allow you to reselect a different school, mega corporation and all the starting options.
All your assets would then be transferred to your new starting location terminal. Any spent EP would be refunded when your accept the restructure and this would only be usable once per account and only within the first week/two weeks.

I would not suggest making this a micro-transaction feature however as it would imbalance the game.