Re: Remove Police Towers

LatscherX wrote:

What happens when my goal is versus your goal? correct. We compete. /thread

My current goal is helping AC to make this game kickass. So clearly we seem to have opposite goals already.

Stop prercieving words the way you want. :-)

What's prercieving?

Re: Remove Police Towers

Faxeir wrote:
LatscherX wrote:

What happens when my goal is versus your goal? correct. We compete. /thread

My current goal is helping AC to make this game kickass. So clearly we seem to have opposite goals already.

I want to see your mental image of game, any game, being "kickass" in your mind.

/edit
And i whuld not be shocked if it whuld look something like this.

Last edited by Siddy (2010-08-09 15:25:44)

Offensive signature. - DEV Zoom

Rawr, fear my signature.

Re: Remove Police Towers

Faxeir wrote:

My current goal is helping AC to make this game kickass. So clearly we seem to have opposite goals already.

You fled from your original argument. We were talking about ingame ;-)

Faxeir wrote:

What's prercieving?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception

Re: Remove Police Towers

i see something like - lets arrange me a situation that my few corpmates and me can shoot all deploying from terminal ... this is lame to me
worst sort of pseduo pvpers from the  other game

lets give tools to actively play whole island - not only terminal - move all resources not only from sentry ranges ... move them even 1km out of their borders - you want goodies - you get out - you want to sleep  you can sleep under terminal
give tools to players who really wants to play outside ...
if you make leaving terminal not possible - nobody sane will go there to be a target for gankers
the more people on beta islands the better ...or am I wrong ?

Re: Remove Police Towers

Sneer Quen wrote:

i see something like - lets arrange me a situation that my few corpmates and me can shoot all deploying from terminal ... this is lame to me
worst sort of pseduo pvpers from the  other game

lets give tools to actively play whole island - not only terminal - move all resources not only from sentry ranges ... move them even 1km out of their borders - you want goodies - you get out - you want to sleep  you can sleep under terminal
give tools to players who really wants to play outside ...
if you make leaving terminal not possible - nobody sane will go there to be a target for gankers
the more people on beta islands the better ...or am I wrong ?

I think you are wrong because there wouldn't be any terminal camping when people woulnd't ABUSE the syndicate protection and hide asap in terminal when enemies are nearby. I really would like to fight somewhere else but since everyone is mining near a terminal afk in police zone its your fault. Our actions are the response to your actions.

Re: Remove Police Towers

heat maps of beta islands.... beacon above teleporters that can be seen from a distance... tracking.... longer sight range.... it all says the same thing to me.

you guys want more pvp.

those ideas were good to me.  this one, not so much.

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: Remove Police Towers

Siddy wrote:

I want to see your mental image of game, any game, being "kickass" in your mind.

Seems you once more underestimate the fact that most people can look beyond their own needs but I'll explain it to you.

The perception of being kickass wouldn't be applicable to me but to the general population that crowds the server. It's impossible to please all but if the majority of the people would call it kickass it would be indeed kickass.

As to the PvP part I'm fairly confident it will pan out just right because the devs seem to be on top of things. I'm more concerned about up-scaling the player count. (This will come up in other threads anyway eventually.)

Re: Remove Police Towers

Sneer Quen wrote:

i see something like - lets arrange me a situation that my few corpmates and me can shoot all deploying from terminal ... this is lame to me
worst sort of pseduo pvpers from the  other game

lets give tools to actively play whole island - not only terminal - move all resources not only from sentry ranges ... move them even 1km out of their borders - you want goodies - you get out - you want to sleep  you can sleep under terminal
give tools to players who really wants to play outside ...
if you make leaving terminal not possible - nobody sane will go there to be a target for gankers
the more people on beta islands the better ...or am I wrong ?

I think the "police change" will adress this quite well.

The idea behind the change is, that if you are not proffiting from protection, you will stay protected. If you are proffiting, the protection is null and void.

Offensive signature. - DEV Zoom

Rawr, fear my signature.

Re: Remove Police Towers

Faxeir wrote:

I'm more concerned about up-scaling the player count. (This will come up in other threads anyway eventually.)

Already discussed. But don´t worry. This is also covered with well thoughts.

Re: Remove Police Towers

Notice all the M2S want the towers gone? They lost 3 mechs yesterday to towers trying to attack a buddy of mines miner. Ya i bet theyre on fire about the towers. Im guessing the tower kills have racked up a nice number.

Last edited by Blackwidow (2010-08-09 15:55:24)

Re: Remove Police Towers

LatscherX wrote:

You fled from your original argument. We were talking about ingame ;-)

Not getting into the game and knowing its kickass or not. You're not really making sense are you? Struggling with your arguments as well as spelling?

Your agenda is well know by now and not quite hidden.

Re: Remove Police Towers

You are wrong Sneer, Siddy wants you get the f*^c out of the beta island because...because it's not place for you. Yeah, let's all players leave the beta island, it's not for noobs, players that don't deserve it.

DEVs, another suggestion. Make teleporters guiding to beta islands not accepting players that has kill less than 10. Because this is sandbox so this should be PVP game.

Siddy wrote many post. Most of them I understand it like this: "sandbox sandox, pvp, m2s, carebears, sandbox, PVP, sandbox, sandbox". Man, better read sandbox description. Sandbox game is not PVP game, it is just place with sand, what's in that box depend on all ppl taking part of it, NOT ONLY YOU. If all ppl want to carebear inside it it's their choice. If you think that PVP is a basis of game you are wrong. Economy, politics and metagaming rules the sandoboxes game, PVP is just a tool for some of this. You say it's a tool but act as primary goal.

I can uderstand your arguments M2S players. You are focused on PVP, ok. But why the hell all PVP oriented players that have account from December merged into one corp and now crying thy there is nobody they want to shoot ? Want some PVP ? Wait for me to get some skills to have at least 10% to win with you. Want equal players fight you ? Divide M2S into 2 parts and fight each other. There are too few ppl in game. There is always some small %% of pvpers between players, so don't expect all beta testers to be PVPers. Why you want to punish all players because of your rudeness ?

For your information Siddy. We were doing many raids for some rats somewhere. Never met any of you. Was that risky ? Yes. Found you ? No. Why ? Because you know that this island is empty and nobody wants to rat there, so you don't run through the island. Now you are trying more options to get us out of Beta. So we won't rat there..sooooo....you don't have opportunity to grief us there. So, maybe instad of "PVP Island" make arenas where teams can fight huh ? Cause you won't have any opportunity to PVP (be honest-grief) if beta islands are empty like on western.

I think idea of moving activities outside sentries is a good idea. Removing all sentries is bad idea. Ofc if you really want reply of docking games in low sec (wchich always pissed me off in eve, so I left low sec and always fought in 0.0).

Last edited by Widget (2010-08-09 16:00:51)

Re: Remove Police Towers

Faxeir wrote:
LatscherX wrote:

You fled from your original argument. We were talking about ingame ;-)

Not getting into the game and knowing its kickass or not. You're not really making sense are you? Struggling with your arguments as well as spelling?

Your agenda is well know by now and not quite hidden.

Yes our agenda is known. Yours also, thats why we oppose yours so the game will get 'kickass' and not spoiled by irresponsible and anthoughtfull ideas. Thank You.

Re: Remove Police Towers

Widget wrote:

You are wrong Sneer, Siddy wants you get the f*^c out of the beta island because...because it's not place for you. Yeah, let's all players leave the beta island, it's not for noobs, players that don't deserve it.

troll.

Widget wrote:

Siddy wrote many post. Most of them I understand it like this: "sandbox sandox, pvp, m2s, carebears, sandbox, PVP, sandbox, sandbox". Man, better read sandbox description. Sandbox game is not PVP game, it is just place with sand, what's in that box depend on all ppl taking part of it, NOT ONLY YOU.

And most of your posts i understand like: "no no, afk-minging, screen-saver game, chilling, online party, harvesting potatoes, evacuate all assets to moon because enemy arkhe spotted. You don´t want us to talk on this level right? So lets stay rational.

Since you stated correctly that all people shape a 'sandbox' you have also to understand that SHAPING happens by players. Police towers are granted security for you by doing NOTHING. And the point is that you have to achive all by yourself in a sandbox game and security is one of these achievments. You wan´t to mine in safety? its ok, do it but take care of your security.



Widget wrote:

If all ppl want to carebear inside it it's their choice. If you think that PVP is a basis of game you are wrong. Economy, politics and metagaming rules the sandoboxes game, PVP is just a tool for some of this. You say it's a tool but act as primary goal.

Correct, but these parts are also competetive. Competition in Economy, economics and elsewhere. You actually compete because you mine ressources which are sold to enemy. And your idea is to compete without risk although you take part in a war. Nonsense. Sorry.

Widget wrote:

I can uderstand your arguments M2S players. You are focused on PVP, ok. But why the hell all PVP oriented players that have account from December merged into one corp and now crying thy there is nobody they want to shoot ? Want some PVP ? Wait for me to get some skills to have at least 10% to win with you. Want equal players fight you ? Divide M2S into 2 parts and fight each other. There are too few ppl in game. There is always some small %% of pvpers between players, so don't expect all beta testers to be PVPers. Why you want to punish all players because of your rudeness ?

This already has happened. We ganked Siddy today 10 times because lacking enemies.

Widget wrote:

For your information Siddy. We were doing many raids for some rats somewhere. Never met any of you. Was that risky ? Yes. Found you ? No. Why ? Because you know that this island is empty and nobody wants to rat there, so you don't run through the island. Now you are trying more options to get us out of Beta. So we won't rat there..sooooo....you don't have opportunity to grief us there. So, maybe instad of "PVP Island" make arenas where teams can fight huh ? Cause you won't have any opportunity to PVP (be honest-grief) if beta islands are empty like on western.

Its because we don´t spend 24/7 of our game time to look where you've hidden just to see you logging off when we appear like the first time.


Widget wrote:

I think idea of moving activities outside sentries is a good idea. Removing all sentries is bad idea. Ofc if you really want reply of docking games in low sec (wchich always pissed me off in eve, so I left low sec and always fought in 0.0).

you answered yourself. Thx.

Re: Remove Police Towers

LatscherX wrote:

Yes our agenda is known. Yours also, thats why we oppose yours so the game will get 'kickass' and not spoiled by irresponsible and anthoughtfull ideas. Thank You.

Why were you crying in the Help channel for devs and members to get into Teamspeak session then? Police towers in the forums? Damage control?

Re: Remove Police Towers

Faxeir wrote:

Why were you crying in the Help channel for devs and members to get into Teamspeak session then? Police towers in the forums? Damage control?

Because some of you are trolling directly and i think you would behave other way when talking in a voice chat.

Re: Remove Police Towers

LatscherX wrote:

Correct, but these parts are also competetive. Competition in Economy, economics and elsewhere. You actually compete because you mine ressources which are sold to enemy. And your idea is to compete without risk although you take part in a war. Nonsense. Sorry.

Ok man, so now I am expecting you mining and producing tier 4 items so I can equip them to fight you back. See the point ? You get the stronghold so don't be rude and share it's values, I can get money from noob island and buy from you items for reasonable values...or...maybe you want me fight you in tier 1 items so you can be uber awesome pvper here smile.  Everybody wants better toys in this game. You got the toys and now trying to separate everybody from them and make this game opposite.

I think this game should have more opportunities of activity, not only territorial control. Ok, I understand that I like this style of game, PVP to get the terrain, like I did in EVE. But I also realize that there are guys that would like to do some activities on noob islands (WoW style players). I also realize that those guys are bigger %% of players in game. So my gameplay depend on those guys. Do you know that big number of players in EVE, can't remember nubers but it was about 70% never left the Empire ? So this will be pointless and irrational for DEVs to remove everything worth from noob islands. And your ideas are focused on moving everything valuable to beta islands and close them from such players. Ok, I can agree with Epriton or tier 4 dropping from rats but hell, not everything...

Last edited by Widget (2010-08-09 16:35:06)

Re: Remove Police Towers

talking which pvp is better doesn't make sense
I'm not in favour of safe resource gathering on beta - it should be fixed -
but if deploying = i'm under fire or
putting one scout under terminal  = all ways to terminal visible
than I quit not only from beta but probably from perpetuum as well cos there will be nothing of sandbox here as only one proper way of living on a beta will be forced


from the other game that so often is reffered...
for me pvp is a process - you either set trap and lure enemies inside or actively seek for them and hunt
shooting is end part of the process ....matter of the good judgement
in the other game I find mysef often deep into enemy teritory , solo or with 2-3 friends - it makes me fun to go there and survive - maybe get some kill or two
it can take 30min or twice that
sometimes even longer - it is ok to me to spent any time on that-
hunting and avoiding catching makes sense for me and is pure pvp
usually if somebody lacks skills in what i wrote earlier he finds himself camping entry to lowsec or play docking game - but only if lack skill / wallet / courage

there are so many ways to make pvp interesting here
longe range directional scaner
demobilizer // or another mod // preventing from safe logout or extending this period by few minutes 
and many more that you can think on the fly 
so instead of making this game interesting for many styles  .... it will go in one direction that suits most bored in beta ?
to the even more boredom ?

Last edited by Sneer Quen (2010-08-09 16:43:12)

Re: Remove Police Towers

Ding Ding Ding , and thier off folks LatscherX vs Faxeir! (horse race announcer) Latscherx takes the lead from the iiiinside, moving up from the outside is faxeir, faxeir moves up to challenge latscherx and ooo gets clotheslined by latscherx , but whats this, faxier is holding onto Latscherx's by the ankle and gnawing at it like a fierce panda! What a race folks.

Last edited by Osirus (2010-08-09 16:46:47)

Re: Remove Police Towers

Sneer Quen wrote:

talking which pvp is better doesn't make sense
than I quit not only from beta but probably from perpetuum as well cos there will be nothing of sandbox here as only one proper way of living on a beta will be forced

THIS !

Sneer Quen wrote:

there are so many ways to make pvp interesting here
longe range directional scaner

But this will work both sides and I think rather help PVErs than PVPers.

Re: Remove Police Towers

i think this thread became discussion who is who and not about sentrys...

we knowthat there is at least 2 groups of interestand question is what changes will be satisfying for both of them...

it started with removing/changing police towers on BETA islands to make them (i think) more alive so players wont move only around terminals but also on all island.

Because, on beta island when ur going mining or ratting ur hunted and with actual game rules ur on lost position when beeing far from terminal. The only way to defend (because fighting is simply stupid when ur in termis or pve fitted mech) is safe logoff.
For me this isn't enough to lure players to beta islands and make them go outside police zones.
Simply making them to do it also seems to be bad idea - no one will come.
So there actually were only my and Sneers and devs ideas.
There were:
- Shrunk police zone/shrunk but make them fully safe from snipe camping (ergo any aggresion against player inthe zone will end with police aggro)

- move all goodies goodies outside safe zone (me likely)
- make tools to efectively move around the islands:
  - scanner
  - ability to see more/less
  - personal teleport (a bit similar to safespot) working like safe logoff

for me giving these kind of tools will give oportunity to actually move around far from terminal/outpost relatively safe (depend on ur and oponent skills).
for exmple if ut in big slow mech then it's more likelythat someone will catch U cause ur easy to find and if hunter will use small fast hard to spot bot then ur chance to survive is even lower (he will spot u earlier and before u can spot him it could be too late)
but if using in gang scout who has better chance to spot enemies then even in slow easy to kill mechs will have chance to escape - but this will need group work

If ur willing to talk about it more let make different thread just for it but only for productive discussion not flame and trolling

For me the actual problem is not police towers but moving around beta islands which is simply too dangerous. When someone will go too far away from safe zone he/she is simply f***ed. I can't sneak. Outside the safe zone i'm just a morron with big bright neon banner: HEY, I'M HERE, PLEASE KILL ME...