Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

I would like to see deposits on the pvp islands that give you a higher yield, but can only be found with a higher accuracy scanner, and only mined if you have the scanner equipped (gives geo-scan accuracy a meaning!)

Great idea there!

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Not everyone wants to fight

Some people just want to mine and be happy

I must agree with the post how to ruin a game 101 handbook

This is just a feature all gankers want, well those gankers not getting ganked, because those getting ganked quit and go on to ruin another game

There is a reason why unlimited pvp games always fail, because most people want to do their thing and be left alone

But there is always a small minority who must, because of a drive inside them, mess with other people, they are never happy unless they are making someone else miserable

They want to drag everyone down into the sh*t where they themselves are

And they use terms as risk vs reward, when in fact that whole thought process is just so that they can, as the mafia, profit on other peoples hard work by offering “protection”

It is plain and simple, the less you mess with people the more people will join the game but also you will have lots of complaints from a small community of gankers and misfits who only exist to make other people unhappy

Last edited by Max Tesla (2010-08-06 17:33:58)

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

You can mine and be happy on alpha islands, you just wont do it as quickly.

Why do people not understand risk vs reward?  You can have nearly 0 risk on alpha islands, but your potential for productivity is reduced.

If you want to mine afk without a worry in the world, you'd still be able to do it.  Dont expect to get as much as the active player though.


they are never happy unless they are making someone else miserable

I'm assuming this is what you think pirates and pvp players are always thinking.... man you're ignorant.

I'm almost regretting posting in your thread, now.

And they use terms as risk vs reward, when in fact that whole thought process is just so that they can, as the mafia, profit on other peoples hard work by offering “protection”

This is even more ignorant than your last statement.

I would LOVE to be the one on the mining side and actually have to take more risks in day-to-day operations.  You apparently play games just to socialize and pay a monthly fee for a chat room.  Again, my suggestion is that you stay on Alpha your entire life.

People that expect to be able to be as productive while semi-afk or afk as those that are active are quite simply delusional.

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

I'll drink to that.. And higher yield mining locations of beta. Gotta love killing a field of hungry miners. Mmm. (Sadly I'll probably be the miner. D:)

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

All you want to do is mess with people, that is all you want that is who you are

But people do not exist for your amusement

What you want to do is simply shot defenseless miners because that makes you happy and glad

You can not understand that there are people a vast majority of whom don't want to exist only to satisfy your needs

All you and others like you can do is ruin games, because no one wants to have unlimited pvp, and people want to play and be happy without risking everything just so that YOU can fulfill your need of shooting defenseless people

A way better feature would be to ban all gankers and people with ganking mentalities that would boost the player base by several quadrillion

And it is good that you regret posting, since you can only be happy when suppressing others it is good that you feel regret

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Max, your post is full of personal opinion made to sound gospel. I've seen people do this before, can't remember their names now...

Unlike you I've yet to talk to everyone in the world to get their opinion but here's mine. You like to play a game a certain way, and that's totally allowed, and you think everyone else wants to play the game the same way you do. You think the world see the same world as you do yet you're very much mistaken. I won't insult your intelligence but if you're looking for a small, short and unchallenging game with no one to get in your way or stomp on your dreams then Hello Kitty World is coming soon. Lego Universe is coming soon too! Now I'm not saying your hope are dreams are childish, it just so happens that the games that match what you want are named aptly.

We, the players who enjoying testing a games full potential, are not here to ruin it and we're not here to tell you that you're wrong. There is nothing wrong with spending your life in safety doing your own things and you could make a valid point that mining on your own and getting somewhere is a little tough but hellishly rewarding. But you didn't make that point. You threw insults and opinions wrapped as truths to try and make yourself heard.

I respect the man that respects himself and is willing to put forth his complaint. You might have something of value worth adding but it's masked by your vision that everyone is evil and out to ruin your "God Given Right" to enjoy something. Honestly this question could be asked to anyone here including myself but what right do you have above others to state what everyone want? Neoxx put forth an idea that people can simply say that they approve or disprove of. Flying off the handle in such colourful ways is entertaining to watch but it's not very helpful for the rest of the people who have to view it.

I have not left the beta island for some times, many weeks, and while most of my time has been spend under police protection (As there are a few people who'd love to chew on my ankles, of which I am fair game.) I've spent some time by myself doing what I enjoy doing. I've had the chance to make million upon million of NIC. I've have the same right to build an empire as you do and as any other player. I also have the same right to fight, not only with my words, against people whom seek to get in the way of my dreams with there own.

You need to learn to understand that destruction, change and advancement happens. The world is so vast and uncontrollable that you may be able to stabilise a small part of it on your own but inevitably you're a tiny insignificant atom in the body of the universe. You do your part just as well as anyone else. Other atoms might be effected by your departure or any changes you make but the ripple you leave behind only stems so far.

This idea, in the very basis of its creation, was not to FORCE you to change. To force a change upon someone unwilling is very hard and defiance, no matter how illogical, will always be met when force is applied. The idea is to show people their potential. Do you even know of the boundless wonders that police towers protect? You're not ready for them and a lot of people aren't but some people are. Those making highly evolved equipment and those looking for more challenging enemies seek refuge on these islands. What we have access to now is a portion of the later vast wonder lands of Nia..

It's just a shame all you can do is animalistically fight your corner like a dog with a hurt foot when someone comes to pet it. Focus on your points, organise them and display them if you wish. This is the medium of expression placed here for your views, research and opinions to be placed. I suggest you use it and use it wisely.

Last edited by Alexander MkII (2010-08-06 20:25:19)

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Max Tesla wrote:

All you want to do is mess with people, that is all you want that is who you are

But people do not exist for your amusement

What you want to do is simply shot defenseless miners because that makes you happy and glad

You can not understand that there are people a vast majority of whom don't want to exist only to satisfy your needs

All you and others like you can do is ruin games, because no one wants to have unlimited pvp, and people want to play and be happy without risking everything just so that YOU can fulfill your need of shooting defenseless people

A way better feature would be to ban all gankers and people with ganking mentalities that would boost the player base by several quadrillion

And it is good that you regret posting, since you can only be happy when suppressing others it is good that you feel regret

You better never leave alpha islands. I got already an Intakt fitted with nice T4 demobilizers and drainers and other neat stuff. Its only for you. I named the intakt olololtrytorun. I SEE YOU.

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Neoxx wrote:

lol

I saw you talking down to and swearing at people in help channel today who were asking simple questions because they were newbies. That's just plain rude and you should know better for a 27yr old nurd.

Your original idea has some merit but if you start to sneer at people who argue against it doesn't help getting your ideas across.

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Hmm - why to reinvent the weel?
It's a more then 10 years experience of mmo makers "how to put players to combat"
and why simply not follow this rulers?

1. Put all mechs to beta islands. It's near done today. If player need a mech kernels
or loot - he should go to the beta. On well equipped mech. And ready for pvp.
2. Make a most "tasty" mechs respawn longer. May be much longer - 0.5 hours or so.
Players will wait to respawn and pvping there.
3. More concentrated ore fields. But! With some mechanics of control of them. For example
daily/weekly events like CTF - winner have contol of tower for next day/week.
It can be not only ore field but interesting bot respawn place too.
More complex - you have event points and can bought and put tower anywere but it will
work only upto next event.
Etc...

I'm refusing any path to make miners life harder cos they driving all game economy.
Also all you forgot that the miners and indusdtrialists are two different specialisations.
To make things - industrialists needs separate miners and miners now needs separate
logistics.
After a wipe game will need about a half of the year to pull this complex system to work.
Remember first year in eve for example. And in eve the miner life is much more easy then there even today.

Last edited by NickCave (2010-08-07 00:46:07)

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

NickCave wrote:

miners life harder cos they driving all game economy.

Incorrect. Recycling is the primary source of materials currently.

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

I bet you do not try to mine with your missile launchers, do you? So what makes you think a miner should try to dent your Seth armor?

You basically ask marathon runner to compete on weightlifting competition. Marathon runner always lose except the case when other weightlifter is not joining a competition.

Not all game is about combat and forcing non-combat game play into a combat is just dumb.


EDIT
For those who need things to be easier to understand:

Imagine the mechanics working the other way round.

You, combat pilot, come to beta island farm high end NPC spawn and Riveler arrives to your place. If the Riveler can mine more ore than you can get from recycling loot within 1 minute, you your bot will overload with Shame for 1000k dmg and explodes, afterwards your field container will be unlocked and looted - miners YARRR!!

That is what you propose, just from other perspective. It takes two to tango.

Last edited by Maynard Benaui (2010-08-07 08:45:47)

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Maynard Benaui wrote:

I bet you do not try to mine with your missile launchers, do you?

Yes, I do. See above Post by Kwitch

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Kwitch wrote:

Yes, I do. See above Post by Kwitch

Well...then you either need to stop trolling or you say that mining needs the exact opposite of proposed idea.

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Alexander MkII wrote:

Max, your post is full of personal opinion made to sound gospel. I've seen people do this before, can't remember their names now...

Unlike you I've yet to talk to everyone in the world to get their opinion but here's mine. You like to play a game a certain way, and that's totally allowed, and you think everyone else wants to play the game the same way you do. .


You are reading things I did not say

No I unlike the post creator do not think everyone wants to play like me I understand everyone is different

What I am saying is that as soon as you have better rewards in pvp areas and start with the whole risk vs reward line of thinking you are then de facto rewarding people who want pvp and penalizing everyone else who does not want to pvp

Letting people pvp maximum in some areas and letting people maximum mining, mission running etc in some other areas would be equality

But saying that maximum rewards for mining or missions can only be achieved in maximum pvp areas is basically saying everyone should be fighting and if you don't want to fight then we are gonna penalize you

But I do not want this to be set somewhere between unlimited pvp and equality for all since that would bring the medium down between there

So to balance it out how about rewards for mining and missions in unlimited pvp areas is LESS how about in the unlimited pvp areas there is only a grand total of 1 iron ore and the less risky areas have greater rewards all down to the safest area that has the best reward

Now that would set the medium between unlimited pvp and fully penalized pvp to the equality for all middle

And by the way it is the poster  and possibly you who thinks everyone wants to pvp

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Maynard Benaui wrote:

EDIT
For those who need things to be easier to understand:

Imagine the mechanics working the other way round.

You, combat pilot, come to beta island farm high end NPC spawn and Riveler arrives to your place. If the Riveler can mine more ore than you can get from recycling loot within 1 minute, you your bot will overload with Shame for 1000k dmg and explodes, afterwards your field container will be unlocked and looted - miners YARRR!!

That is what you propose, just from other perspective. It takes two to tango.

also this:

Maynard Benaui wrote:

Well...then you either need to stop trolling or you say that mining needs the exact opposite of proposed idea.

No one has to go to beta to recycle. This example is pointless. high end npc's take a long amount of time. just farming low ones for recyclable loot is highly profitable from materials looted from recycling. I have not once had to mine in this game, and I produce mechs, t4 items, etc.

Your assumption that I am a troll is not founded. Please do not label me just because my contribution to the thread is that mining is underpowered currently.

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Kwitch wrote:
NickCave wrote:

miners life harder cos they driving all game economy.

Incorrect. Recycling is the primary source of materials currently.

Especially for titan, Statishnol and Alligior ))
Even if it how you say for other matherials are you sure it should be this way?
I'm not. Now this few easy-to-get items with high matherial ratio (like scanners etc.)
looks more like inbalance then a planned feature.

I trust you that you have produced t4 items and mechs but talking from position of
pure industrial corporation. We producing and selling about 40 t4 items in a week
so have some knowlege in this.

I agree with you with point of "people shoud go to betas" so proposed a few alternate
ways to do this.

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

my personal assumption:
as far is i can tell, the devs will nerf recycling first.

“The truth is balance. However the opposite of truth, which is unbalance, may not be a lie.”
(Susan Sontag)
Forum Moderator

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

In my honest and brief opinion.

1. Insure that recycling is never better than mining in terms of yield.

2. Have epriton moved to pvp only (Already done) and have it moved 500m+ AWAY from the edge of police towers. (Not done.)

3. Future "Ceti" islands will have player controlled mining structures to make them better than beta, and the islands will be 100% police free, and all dockable structures will be player built.

4. Add some form of simple minigame to mining, that further gives reason to non-afk mine. But NOT have it be mandatory, just have it reward active miners.

It's late and I quickly skimmed over the ideas presented here, but I can say as the oldest miner here (Bar Dezgard returning from the Chinese internment camp), that more risk+reward is the way to go, it keeps me from having to watch tv as I mine. It adds excitement and reward to a otherwise damn boring (Albeit profitable) activity. The risk of losing that mining bot just needs to be appropriately compensated for.

I at least like to think I stand in the middle here as both a pirate/ganker and a miner/industrialist. Anyway, that's my 2 NIC.

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

EDIT:

Ah, I see now. Recycling yield will shift the mineral prices but in a matter of sheer volumes, it should favor to mining.

Last edited by Maynard Benaui (2010-08-07 13:31:46)

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Blackomen wrote:

In my honest and brief opinion.

1. Insure that recycling is never better than mining in terms of yield.

2. Have epriton moved to pvp only (Already done) and have it moved 500m+ AWAY from the edge of police towers. (Not done.)

3. Future "Ceti" islands will have player controlled mining structures to make them better than beta, and the islands will be 100% police free, and all dockable structures will be player built.

4. Add some form of simple minigame to mining, that further gives reason to non-afk mine. But NOT have it be mandatory, just have it reward active miners.

It's late and I quickly skimmed over the ideas presented here, but I can say as the oldest miner here (Bar Dezgard returning from the Chinese internment camp), that more risk+reward is the way to go, it keeps me from having to watch tv as I mine. It adds excitement and reward to a otherwise damn boring (Albeit profitable) activity. The risk of losing that mining bot just needs to be appropriately compensated for.

I at least like to think I stand in the middle here as both a pirate/ganker and a miner/industrialist. Anyway, that's my 2 NIC.


What is with this pvp is the best and everything else is worse mentality

Different people find different things fun

Some people find it fun to pvp, some find it fun to do missions some find it fun to mine etc etc

By saying that to achieve maximum amount of fun in mining you MUST go to the pvp area is saying that mining fun is less valued than pvp fun and you are building a pyramid hierarchy of fun where pvp is considered the most fun

Let those who want pvp, pvp and let those who want to mine, mine and let those who want to run missions do so

Stop thinking that everyone everywhere wants to pvp and all other types of fun is less valued

In my opinion that is the biggest problem with stEVE this whole risk vs mentality when in fact it is the miner and mission runners who must risk everything so that the minority of pvpers can have fun by risking nothing and gaining their fun, the quote earlier about marathon runners and weight lifters is good

If people want to shoot each other fine, but do not force people who don't into that area

If people find it fun drilling into rocks  than god bless and let them if that gives them joy

If people find it fun to pvp than god bless them, but do not force people who don't want to do that into pvp

Stop meddling with people

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Blackomen in summary hit the topics of this thread well.

Recycling *is* overpowered currently. It does not need to become useless, but should not be as lucrative.

This should also have an affect on standing module prices over time for several reasons related to their base materials costs.

This thread requested that mining on alpha be reduced. I completely disagree with reducing mining in any form. It is not done enough. Why 'nerf' an activity that a minority are performing, and not profiting from in excess?

Also, Everytime they move the epriton farther away, it drips back into police towers. It's a matter of it not being harvested at a reasonable rate by just us beta testers.

THe minigame concept was discussed, I don't think I've seen approval/noted/declined idea status there yet. I don't think it's a bad idea per-se, but I also think mining is ideal to players that prefer to run multiple accounts or perform other tasks at the computer. Ultimately it may be rejected by the core group it is designed for for these reasons. I also don't feel a good representation of the active miners are in either thread, as they don't seem to post often.

*edit*

Stop meddling with people

If you want your posts to be taken seriously, do not take them as personal attacks. They aren't. These are design topics. Not personal preference. Assuming his logic stems from his in-game activities is not logical. Claiming he chooses the most interesting course of gameplay and that has a relation to his outlook is fair, but not that it clouds his judgement.

Just because you're not winning your thread doesn't mean you're right and they're wrong.

Last edited by Kwitch (2010-08-07 12:18:47)

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Kwitch wrote:

Blackomen in summary hit the topics of this thread well.

Recycling *is* overpowered currently. It does not need to become useless, but should not be as lucrative.

This should also have an affect on standing module prices over time for several reasons related to their base materials costs.

This thread requested that mining on alpha be reduced. I completely disagree with reducing mining in any form. It is not done enough. Why 'nerf' an activity that a minority are performing, and not profiting from in excess?

Also, Everytime they move the epriton farther away, it drips back into police towers. It's a matter of it not being harvested at a reasonable rate by just us beta testers.

THe minigame concept was discussed, I don't think I've seen approval/noted/declined idea status there yet. I don't think it's a bad idea per-se, but I also think mining is ideal to players that prefer to run multiple accounts or perform other tasks at the computer. Ultimately it may be rejected by the core group it is designed for for these reasons. I also don't feel a good representation of the active miners are in either thread, as they don't seem to post often.

*edit*

Stop meddling with people

If you want your posts to be taken seriously, do not take them as personal attacks. They aren't. These are design topics. Not personal preference. Assuming his logic stems from his in-game activities is not logical. Claiming he chooses the most interesting course of gameplay and that has a relation to his outlook is fair, but not that it clouds his judgement.

Just because you're not winning your thread doesn't mean you're right and they're wrong.


Just because some one does not agree with you does not mean it is a personal attack

I am against a fun hierarchy where pvp fun is considered the best and where all other types of fun is considered less
Let people mine the best mineral in a safe area if they so wish, their real money which they pay to play the game is equal to the money the people who want to pvp so why should miners fun be penalized and pvpers fun be promoted

Different people find different things fun, do not say that pvp fun is the only fun which is allowed to be fully maximized and all other types of fun is less

And let people pvp with other people who want to pvp

Do not force people who do not want to fight into fighting areas just to satisfy people who want to fight

So basically stop meddling with people and let them do what they want, without saying this type of fun is better than that type of fun

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

^ this. I agree pretty much.

I don't just embrace insanity. I feel it up, french kiss it and then buy it a drink.

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

Recycling is only powerful at the moment because 1 person can farm for an hour and come back with 100/200 units of a module. The only reason they can do this is because they're fighting many ranks above themselves which is only possible due to the lack of AI.

Once the NPC's are fixed the value of NIC will rise, everything will go down in price as there will be less NIC available. 1 NIC will be worth a lot more. NPCing is the main source of NIC coming into the game at the moment due to the infinite buy orders. The market will boom and bust as people fill market orders and the NPC buy prices need to remain a constant. During a boom everyone will buy from each other (As there is lots of NIC in the game) and then once everyone is clawing at each other to get more NIC the market prices will have to fall and the NPC buy orders will once again seem fair. This bringing more NIC into the game and the cycles starts again. It'll take a lot of people to get the market really moving.

This is just a simplified version of how the economy will/should work with the only source of NIC being either the market or assignments. The Income from assignments will slightly offset that of the NPC market but only slightly. The boom and bust cycles will get longer and less violent as well as time goes on, hopefully. D:

Last edited by Alexander MkII (2010-08-07 13:16:41)

Re: Lower Mining/Harvesting Yield on Alpha

What blackomen said...

Last edited by Styx (2010-08-07 14:53:27)