Topic: Terminal Jumping

I know this has been discussed before, as I was talking with someone in-game about this, and they mentioned something about it being brought up before as its like Steve.  If it is, I couldnt find it through searching, so at least I tried.


TLDR: It would be an extension that would allow you to jump from terminal to terminal granted that you had a bot/mech in the destination terminal to pilot.


Extension:  Remote Terminal Connection

Description:  Allows the Agent to instantly connect to a remote terminal and operate an owned bot or mech docked there.  Each level improves the transfer cooldown by 2 hours.

Limitations:

  • Must have bot/mech there prior to transfer.

  • Level 1 cooldown: 24 hours.  Level 10 cooldown: 8 hours.

Issues (for discussion):

  • If market is made to allow remote buying/selling, people could buy bots remotely and theoretically transfer to any station at any time.

  • Likeness to Steve: You need to have a bot/mech there first to be able to transfer to a terminal, so it would have its unique properties.

  • Distance: Since we're remotely connecting through Earth, would there be limitations on distance, or just the cooldown?  I think distance doesnt make much sense with the lore so I opted out of including it in my description.


IMO, this makes a lot of sense seeing as how we're remotely connecting to our bots/mechs already.  It would just transfer our connection to another bot/mech thats registered to your Agent and make it active.  The cooldown is basically the efficiency of performing this action and whatever sort of ability it takes to do this from power to network strain, but its really just a progression limitation.

Last edited by Neoxx (2010-06-19 19:41:17)

Re: Terminal Jumping

This can be exploited; people can run from pvp by station jumping; they can reinforce a position instantly; once territory control will be in, these sorts of things will become major problems depending on the exact mechanic of ownership.

This might work in steve but here not so much..or at least not like that.

Re: Terminal Jumping

If a corp owns a station they can limit station jumping to it. That would go for playerowned corps and npc corps ofcourse.

Re: Terminal Jumping

Scarba wrote:

This can be exploited; people can run from pvp by station jumping; they can reinforce a position instantly; once territory control will be in, these sorts of things will become major problems depending on the exact mechanic of ownership.

This might work in steve but here not so much..or at least not like that.

Only exploitable by rich people who can afford a well equiped pvp bot in every station

Re: Terminal Jumping

You don't need a pvp bot in every station; just think strategically..

Re: Terminal Jumping

Scarba wrote:

This can be exploited; people can run from pvp by station jumping; they can reinforce a position instantly; once territory control will be in, these sorts of things will become major problems depending on the exact mechanic of ownership.

This might work in steve but here not so much..or at least not like that.

Yes, that could be true.  But if you're already in the police zone or able to get in a terminal, then jumping wont make much difference if you dont want to fight.

People wont simply sit in a terminal until the threat goes away.  If they dotn want to PvP they will just log off and wait for them to leave.  If you have somewhere to jump to and the time to do it you're free to do so.  If the person is already in a terminal they obviously havnt fought in a few minutes AND are inside a police zone, and you're most likely not going to get any pvp action out of them anyway.

The extension could also limit distance as well, and maybe even certain types of stations to be able to control this and make it more viable and not "exploitable" as you say.  Of course, this is just for discussion and not something I'm demanding.

The distance could be by the teleport stations in range and how many it would need to get there.  Hopefully when theres the last 3 islands open the teleports will become more varied so having a level 10 max of 3/4 jumps would allow you to get mostly anywhere, but you'd need to get it up pretty high to be able to travel to a terminal farther than on the same island.

Re: Terminal Jumping

As it stands right now, we camp areas on the pvp isles that represent choke points - where farming bots have to pass to get to the rich farming area and back to the teleport. By applying this, they would simply leave a bot there and jump in and farm, also having a field container and frequently banking loot; then, when the coast is clear, hawl that loot safely out and jump back in.

That would make ganking virtually a wasted effort.

Re: Terminal Jumping

Scarba wrote:

As it stands right now, we camp areas on the pvp isles that represent choke points - where farming bots have to pass to get to the rich farming area and back to the teleport. By applying this, they would simply leave a bot there and jump in and farm, also having a field container and frequently banking loot; then, when the coast is clear, hawl that loot safely out and jump back in.

That would make ganking virtually a wasted effort.

Then why leave them a clear path to the nearest terminal?  If you're talking about choke points, then cut them off from terminals and teleporters, I would assume you'd do that in the first place anyway.  They need to get to a terminal in order to "get away", and still all of their loot is in that terminal.

You could also just kill the haulers when they go to transport things.

If it were me, I think I would use your tactic to begin with.  I'd farm up a *** ton and use a can to hold it and transport it to the nearest terminal.  When I'm done I'd take a sequer and haul it all back somewhere to sell.

I fail to see how this would keep you from killing people farming or hauling ***.


EDIT:  It would also take them a long time to be able to get out, even at the highest extension.  It would probably be in their best interest to just travel there.  Even with level 10 (from the OP) they would have to wait 8 hours after they ported in to be able to port out.  Thats a LONG time to either farm in a contained area with people looking for you or wait to transfer out to get a hauler.

This isnt something that you can quickly escape any situation or jump in and out with ease whenever you feel like it.

Last edited by Neoxx (2010-06-19 21:30:20)

Re: Terminal Jumping

You don't want to get it. I'll just pat you on the back and wish you luck with this horrible idea.

Re: Terminal Jumping

Scarba wrote:

You don't want to get it. I'll just pat you on the back and wish you luck with this horrible idea.

So I just want an easy way out of everything?  K.

I'm sorry I dont have a pacifier on me, so I'll just leave you with your horrible tactics. 

I guess I cant expect everyone to understand the point of a forum.

Re: Terminal Jumping

Fast travel is any sense will easily negate "Road blocks" and while I hate being caught by them it's a part of the game.  Being able to pop up behind enemy lines is a feature many of us would want but also hate when it's used against us.

Re: Terminal Jumping

Alexander MkII wrote:

Fast travel is any sense will easily negate "Road blocks" and while I hate being caught by them it's a part of the game.  Being able to pop up behind enemy lines is a feature many of us would want but also hate when it's used against us.

Sure, but that will not apply to the transfer of goods, which is what you're there for.  Unless you just like blowing people up... lol.

It wont be something you do all the time either.  They could extend the time as much as they want, maybe level 1 is 2 days, and level 10 is a day.  Still, thats 1 transfer every day.

It could be used to quickly check market prices at a remote location and adjust you sells, or do that "hail mary" play with corp members and attack from a different angle.  You could only do this once in a while, not like hopping back and forth at will.

Since you need to have your *** already there for you to use it, I see it as a viable tactic and mechanic.

If you wanted to use it in PvP, you'd have to coordinate everyone having geared out *** at the terminal before hand.

Re: Terminal Jumping

ok so here's my take on the concept

yes, this will be needed in some form, as the world becomes larger.
yes, this can be used to escape pvp, so very specific limits are needed, for example:

1. you can only terminal jump between 2 terminals owned by your corp. corps may set up jump routes for a price which they can let the public use, or only people with specific standings. yes this means you can't jump from safe islands but hey they're safe anyway

2. you cannot jump terminals for [x time] after engaging in any pvp activities (e.g. 30 minutes) so it can't be immediately used to get away from campers

3. when you jump you have a stasis period during which you cannot leave your new terminal or jump again. something like 5 minutes per island. ie if you would have to walk through 3 islands to get to your jump destination you have 15 minutes stasis period after jumping.

4. jumping uses up some kind of mineral as 'fuel'

5. jumping requires you to train an extension, 1 island range per level
5a. you can also have extensions to reduce fuel usage and stasis time, e.g. 3-5% per level

i don't expect all of these things to be implemented together, but it gives the kind of idea of what i'm thinking of you'd need as limits - it stops it being abused without making it useless.

Re: Terminal Jumping

Its nice to see someone attempting at refining this idea... lol.

I like the idea of a waiting period from PvP and after jumping to make it more of a travel thing rather than a pvp thing.

I'm not very fond of the extension use for travel distance, as I dont see it as a workable concept for the lore.  we're already making connection through a wormhole, so how will where the island/terminal is located in relation to your current location have any effect on it?  It would be a nice feature, but I just cant see it working.

As far as the "fuel", I can state the same from above for being why it doesnt really make sense.  youre not really affecting anything in the game world, just your agents connection to it by swapping from one bot to another.

The corp ownership is an interesting idea.  I would still like the option to jump to safe zones, so maybe any safe island terminal as well as corp owned or otherwise friendly "allowed" terminals?  this could be setup by corporation standings or permissions for other corps to use a certian terminal.  Of course, this depends on when we can get player owned terminals, but i expect it will be there at some point in time.

To further on the friendly corp idea, and seeing as how player owned terminals arent in yet, could this be extended to your primary corps beta terminal?  You may have to reach a certain standing with the mega corp (average of all corp standings inside of thier terminals) to unlock it, but it would give it more progression and limitation, as well as a permission based system to work off of for the future.

Even if this was only between policed zones and friendly corps, this could still be a very handy tool for nearly anyone.  People could easily switch to different terminals/islands for a day of farming with their whole corp granted they had it, and those that didnt just have to travel longer.  Economists could negate some travel time to adjust buy/sell prices at different terminals.  Industry guys could jump to terminals to quickly refine/process/build items their corp needs and they are the most skilled at.

Re: Terminal Jumping

Neoxx wrote:

...jump distance...

From what I read in the lore, we're connecting to nanobots which take over the robots. So, it could be something about the range of the nanobots, or the speed at which they can get from one place to another. Or it could go entirely without explanation, like how we have to train extensions for the number of stuff we sell on the market. Logic is not entirely necessary, it would just impose limits which should be in place to stop the system being overly abused.

Neoxx wrote:

...fuel stuff...

Again, nanobots. They either need fuel to move about, or you need minerals to make new nanobots at the destination, or whatever other justification you want.

Neoxx wrote:

..corp stuff...

My vision was that this would be a way to bypass hostile tracts of land. In safe zones, you're... well, safe, so an instant-travel mechanic isn't really required. With the time-based penalties post-jump, it shouldn't be a great deal quicker than walking manually in a speed-fit bot (100kph, say). Just that you aren't going to be killed on the way, and don't need to be at the keyboard either. Think of it as autopilot plus godmode, without cargo.

This is why I wanted there to be extra limits like fuel and extensions, rather than a "one jump a day timer", because a) a carbon copy of steve's mechanic wouldn't be awesome, and b) it gives you more choice and versatility.

Having said that, I now realise what you're getting at, so maybe there should be a separate mechanic for instant travel to any terminal anywhere, with a global cooldown timer (i'd say 40 hours, reducable by 5% per extension level) and a post-jump timer before undocking, same as described above. The two systems would complement each other, giving options for getting around.

Developing the idea further, maybe you could have the stasis period of 15 minutes as an optional thing, but for each minute of the stasis you skip, it adds another hour until your next jump. i.e. if you leave terminal 5 minutes after a jump, it adds 10 hours to your timer before next jump, because you skipped 10 minutes of stasis. I'm sure you could think up some story why that happens, if you even feel compelled to give an explanation at all.

Re: Terminal Jumping

Thanks for the input, Prophet.  Thanks for the reminder that its actually nano bots that we control, and this could be incorporated very easily into balancing the system like you suggested.

Prophet wrote:

nano bot travel

Yes, making new nano bots or having to make the current ones travel is a great way to limit the jumps or time or something.  The restriction to distance will be key, especially when the world expands to 9 islands or even more.

Prophet wrote:

instant travel

I think all of these things can be contained within the same mechanic, but maybe have multiple extensions to handle the different variables such as travel time (time until you can go out in the world again), cool down between jumps,  distance you can travel per jump, etc etc.

Of course I dont want it to be exactly like steve, but I've never played steve to the point where I used that function, so I'm really not drawing from experience here, just an idea and trying to balance it logically.

Prophet wrote:

stasis skipping

I would vote against that, because it would negate the need for multiple extensions.  Someone could just drastically lower their cool down timer and then basically skip stasis every time, so they dont need to raise the stasis extension or vice versa.  Sure, the EP costs would probably make them WANT to raise it to a certain extent, but when you dont NEED to undock instantly in most cases I would assume most would go for cooldown then just suffer the consequences when they needed to use it.

Re: Terminal Jumping

on the skipping, that would just be subject to balancing, really - if it was 10 hours extra timer per minute skipped, that would really make you think - say even if you only had 5min stasis, that would still add 2 days to your timer if you skipped it - do you quickly jump to a friend's defense, but potentially leaving yourself stranded for a while, or do you wait it out and hope he doesn't die?