Topic: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Railgun mech have bonuses that very similar to railgun light bot, missile mech have that very similar to missile light bot. Logical? Yes.

But laser mech have bonus to shield when light have accamulator bonuses. Logical? Nope. Artemis need shield bonus like rabbit - traffic lights (russian proverb smile )

The same thing with heavy mechs.

My suggestion is in making laser mechs and heavy mechs bonuses similar to laser light and assault bots.

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

non-well-reasoned
didn't get the point

I also don't like bonuses on locking time which has Gropho, but it's fine, because there other idea for this heavy mech. Also in current state of shields Gropho don't need them, cause also he has -1 slot in legs in compare of laser and EM robots.
Tyrannos has bonus to recharge time of accumulator, but I also didn't get idea where it could be used, but i think there is some hidden meaning.

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Tyrannos has a good use of a shield generator ... with the high cooldown of med launchers, you can toggle shield between cycles.

Artemis could also try, but ... when you have 4 med lasers burning your core in 1 min, no you dont use shield ...
mmm and what about the artemis tracking bonus???

I do think they will rebalance the whole bonus thing, even if many bots have great ones ... but we have to give them time smile

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

I agree that the medium and heavy laser mechs should get tracking bonus switched for a max accumulator bonus, the same accumulator bonus the baphomet has. Baphomet isn't so bad now, with good skills you have a good recharge, but the laser mech and heavy mech laser ap issues are even worse and they don't even have an accumulator bonus. In my opinion it makes sense that laser bots would get 5% per level to accumulator capacity.

Also I realise they intend to make shields useful, but with the high ap usage on laser bots I really do fail to see the point in giving a shield bonus to them.

Last edited by Sinister (2010-02-04 11:00:28)

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Sinister wrote:

I agree that the medium and heavy laser mechs should get tracking bonus switched for a max accumulator bonus, the same accumulator bonus the baphomet has. Baphomet isn't so bad now, with good skills you have a good recharge, but the laser mech and heavy mech laser ap issues are even worse and they don't even have an accumulator bonus. In my opinion it makes sense that laser bots would get 5% per level to accumulator capacity.

Also I realise they intend to make shields useful, but with the high ap usage on laser bots I really do fail to see the point in giving a shield bonus to them.

Shield absorbtion bonus makes dramatical reduction in cap use of shields.

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

I agree what shield absorption bonus is fine on missile boats, but with rof of medium laser it useful, also core is life of laser boat. No core - no damage, no tanking. Also i wanna left tracking bonus and change shield bonuses to accumulator consumption bonuses. Also good bonus is bonus for HP. Passive tank also working fine in team. You have core for shooting and your well resisted armor may be repaired by teammate. I star ass pilot missile boats, but laserbots more dynamical and more fun for me. and when project start i will star as pilot of laser boat. Missile is good, but they boring. you stay and waiting when launcher shoot.

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Yes, laser bots do already have the largest amount of armor of all bots, considering that, and their large accumulators, I would have thought lasers would be about tanking with their armor. That combined with lasers already already a large amount of AP just makes no sense for their bots to have a shield bonus.

A shield bonus makes sense on missile bots due to their weapon type using almost no AP and having a slower rate of fire. It is the total opposite on laser bots.

Last edited by Sinister (2010-02-04 13:30:32)

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

hmm,

dont get your logic...

shield bonus means, that if they equip shields, those will work much more effective and will drain less AP/DMG. 

your argumentation has some flaws...

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Er... Shields take from your AP when you get hit, AP being drained from shield hits is not something a laser user can afford. If your AP runs out, all that armor means nothing, you're dead in the water.

Shield on while being shot at while firing your own lasers = AP gone to nothing in no time atall.

Missile bots don't have this problem, because missile launchers only cost 1ap to fire, small or medium. Medium lasers cost 25-36 ap per shot with a cycle time of 3-4 seconds.

The seth already runs out of AP from just firing its guns for 120 seconds. Now with shield on it can run out of AP in 50 seconds.

Last edited by Sinister (2010-02-04 15:05:14)

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

I guess you forget about 1 thing. Natural born resists. When your artemis is being shot with kinetic damage his armor gets half of damage, while shield absorbs full damage.

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Sinister wrote:

Er... Shields take from your AP when you get hit, AP being drained from shield hits is not something a laser user can afford. If your AP runs out, all that armor means nothing, you're dead in the water.

Shield on while being shot at while firing your own lasers = AP gone to nothing in no time atall.

Missile bots don't have this problem, because missile launchers only cost 1ap to fire, small or medium. Medium lasers cost 25-36 ap per shot with a cycle time of 3-4 seconds.

The seth already runs out of AP from just firing its guns for 120 seconds. Now with shield on it can run out of AP in 50 seconds.

It's kind of stupid because medium laser bots almost pay for damage in AP point for point. Against a target with at least some resists it's going to cost you 25-36 ap to fire your gun just so you can do 30-40 damage.


That is why you have extra armor.

I think about it like this:
High armor buffer, shield for specific situations and roles, accu injector for your accu issues.

Just wait for more content to come...

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Maynard Benaui wrote:
Sinister wrote:

Er... Shields take from your AP when you get hit, AP being drained from shield hits is not something a laser user can afford. If your AP runs out, all that armor means nothing, you're dead in the water.

Shield on while being shot at while firing your own lasers = AP gone to nothing in no time atall.

Missile bots don't have this problem, because missile launchers only cost 1ap to fire, small or medium. Medium lasers cost 25-36 ap per shot with a cycle time of 3-4 seconds.

The seth already runs out of AP from just firing its guns for 120 seconds. Now with shield on it can run out of AP in 50 seconds.

It's kind of stupid because medium laser bots almost pay for damage in AP point for point. Against a target with at least some resists it's going to cost you 25-36 ap to fire your gun just so you can do 30-40 damage.


That is why you have extra armor.

I think about it like this:
High armor buffer, shield for specific situations and roles, accu injector for your accu issues.

Just wait for more content to come...

A shield module is a waste of a slot if it's only for very specific situations. What good is high buffer armor if your AP runs too low, or runs out? Which is going to happen if you turn that shield on for a short time.

Last edited by Sinister (2010-02-04 15:18:10)

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Sinister wrote:

A shield module is a waste of a slot if it's only for very specific situations. What good is high buffer armor if your AP runs too low, or runs out? Which is going to happen if you turn that shield on for a short time.

You already know that it is a waste of slot even though you have no idea what specific situation can be?

Last edited by Maynard Benaui (2010-02-04 15:18:37)

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Maynard Benaui wrote:
Sinister wrote:

A shield module is a waste of a slot if it's only for very specific situations. What good is high buffer armor if your AP runs too low, or runs out? Which is going to happen if you turn that shield on for a short time.

You already know that it is a waste of slat even though you have no idea what specific situation can be?

The whole issue here is the fact that laser bots have a bonus wasted on shields, when shields are obviously not something that is suited for this type of bot. Yes it may have specific situations where it is sometimes useful but I don't believe this warrants wasting an entire bonus for laser bots. They're screwing laser users into using shields, they're saying "if you don't use a shield you'll be wasting a bonus". And that's stupid.

Better they remove the shield bonus and replace it with a max accumulator bonus, like the baphomet has. The laser mech and heavy mechs need it BADLY because as it current stands, even after the laser ap reduction, laser mechs and heavy mechs are still not worth using.

I don't believe that I should be forced to equip a shield in order to make the most of my bots bonuses. Especially when you consider that equipping a shield on a bot which has SEVERE AP issues already is one of the dumbest ideas i've heard of yet.

The laser AP reduction change only really made light laser bots worth using, the baphomet in paticular and only because it has a max accumulator bonus. The artemis and seth are incredibly inefficient because they simply can't keep up with the AP use of medium lasers as it is and that's without having a shield equipped. The shield bonus is just worthless for the majority of players who will use lasers.

Last edited by Sinister (2010-02-04 15:22:07)

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Sinister wrote:

The whole issue here is the fact that laser bots have a bonus wasted on shields, when shields are obviously not something that is suited for this type of bot. Yes it may have specific situations where it is sometimes useful but I don't believe this warrants wasting an entire bonus for laser bots. They're screwing laser users into using shields, they're saying "if you don't use a shield you'll be wasting a bonus". And that's stupid.

Better they remove the shield bonus and replace it with a max accumulator bonus, like the baphomet has. The laser mech and heavy mechs need it BADLY because as it current stands, even after the laser ap reduction, laser mechs and heavy mechs are still not worth using.

I don't believe that I should be forced to equip a shield in order to make the most of my bots bonuses. Especially when you consider that equipping a shield on a bot which has SEVERE AP issues already is one of the dumbest ideas i've heard of yet.

The laser AP reduction change only really made light laser bots worth using, the baphomet in paticular and only because it has a max accumulator bonus. The artemis and seth are incredibly inefficient because they simply can't keep up with the AP use of medium lasers as it is and that's without having a shield equipped. The shield bonus is just worthless for the majority of players who will use lasers.

Instead of believes, why don't you rather wait and consider the matter once the content is there?

Last edited by Maynard Benaui (2010-02-04 15:32:17)

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Maynard Benaui wrote:
Sinister wrote:

The whole issue here is the fact that laser bots have a bonus wasted on shields, when shields are obviously not something that is suited for this type of bot. Yes it may have specific situations where it is sometimes useful but I don't believe this warrants wasting an entire bonus for laser bots. They're screwing laser users into using shields, they're saying "if you don't use a shield you'll be wasting a bonus". And that's stupid.

Better they remove the shield bonus and replace it with a max accumulator bonus, like the baphomet has. The laser mech and heavy mechs need it BADLY because as it current stands, even after the laser ap reduction, laser mechs and heavy mechs are still not worth using.

No, the only issue is that you are make assumption and missing facts.

Until more weapons, shield tweaks and other content are out, there is no way to say wheter shield on Thelodica bots is useless or not.

I am saying that at this stage it is totally useless. Unless they cut down AP use on medium lasers by at least another third or give artemis and seth a 5% max accumulator per level bonus it will stay that way.

What we know about shields is they plan to make it so you add new shields that allows you to shoot through the shield with a certain weapon-type but also be vulnerable to return fire from that weapon type. Also the possibility of shields that block certain types of EW. That's all well and good, the 2nd one could be fairly useful, but that doesn't change the fact that an artemis or seth taking damage to its shield while firing lasers may aswell have not bothered coming to the fight in the first place because with 0 AP they won't be doing anything.

Last edited by Sinister (2010-02-04 15:32:39)

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Sinister wrote:

I am saying that at this stage it is totally useless.

That is why it is a beta.

Release content, fix bugs, balance & polish -> release.

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Maynard Benaui wrote:
Sinister wrote:

I am saying that at this stage it is totally useless.

That is why it is a beta.

Release content, fix bugs, balance & polish -> release.

That's why i'm posting here. We know shields will be improved a bit, but from what i've heard, it won't do anything to fix laser bot issues.

I don't honestly know why they even gave any of the bots a shield bonus, except perhaps for missiles because they honestly do have the AP spare to use them, but even so, I think it would have been better if shields were an optional module and not something you are forced to use in order to make the most of the bonuses the specific bot you've chosen to use has.

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Sinister wrote:

That's why i'm posting here. We know shields will be improved a bit, but from what i've heard, it won't do anything to fix laser bot issues.

I don't honestly know why they even gave any of the bots a shield bonus, except perhaps for missiles because they honestly do have the AP spare to use them, but even so, I think it would have been better if shields were an optional module and not something you are forced to use in order to make the most of the bonuses the specific bot you've chosen to use has.


There is not much I can add to topic unless I would repeat myself.


Hearing something is not making an argument for changes of current content.

The bots might have recieved a shield bonus with future changes in mind long ago or as someone said one day because mechs were primarily released for mining when there were no mining specialized bots yet, who knows...

However, it is not important.

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Do as i use to ... on an artemis, equip medium ratata and a shield.
Then you can use shield, and ratata use no ap!
Almost perfect, isnt it? ^^

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Bambi wrote:

Do as i use to ... on an artemis, equip medium ratata and a shield.
Then you can use shield, and ratata use no ap!
Almost perfect, isnt it? ^^

What is a ratata? Autocannons? If that's what you mean then that's laser turret bonuses wasted.

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

You are never happy tongue

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

base
HCL laser DPS: 7.333...
Autocannon DPS: 11.825

maximum
HCL laser DPS:  26.4DPS
Autocannon DPS:  25.6208333...


Lasers take more EP to get maximum... and are only BARELY more damaging.

Last edited by Siddy (2010-02-04 18:49:42)

Offensive signature. - DEV Zoom

Rawr, fear my signature.

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

yeah,

ratata go!

theres one thing someone here doesnt get - just because a bot is designed to do better with a certain type of equipment, it doesnt mean you HAVE TO equip it that way.

yeah - artemis with ratatat and shields is a nice combination. You could also combine Artemis with Shield, two med drainer and two med weapons of joice. That would turn it into a nice TANK.

and you still dont get it - there is no AP consumption from your MED laser if you having your shield active. you can probly tank with those Laserbots better then with any other bot:

1. highest Accu-capacity
2. most equipable slots (shield, shield-hardener and injektor)
3. shield-bonus

Re: Stupid bonuses on laser mech and heavy mech

Bunkerkind Anni wrote:

yeah,
and you still dont get it - there is no AP consumption from your MED laser if you having your shield active.

nah, all know that's the matter of time when bots will be available to fire through shield.
so this is really main topic for lasers.
They will get more AP or will get some new bonuses ( I vote for new bonuses, because the enlarging the AP will be disbalancing for other bots — Thelodica will be non-stoppable without neutralizers)