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Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

So ,here's another newbie opinion (me) :
1. The game even in current stage of development can and will catch much attention from new players. I love the features and opportunities. Similarity with Eve is all wellcome here.
2. Grinding is bad - there are alot of grinding MMORPGS already. The only way you may enjoy it - if it's a part of much bigger effort. So here comes my opinion:

Let's stick to the storyline - you are an agent on a hostile planet - you MUST have ORDERS. So new player, entering a game must have a priority long-term orders. For example - examine the natives and build up an economy of his own. The trick is that orders are exactly reflecting players own desires. They not enforce player, but promote, teach and award him.
Some examples:
*Long term order: learn alien technology
  *1st mission - research 2 military (weapon and ammo) and 2 industrial (mining tool, mining charge) topics in knowledgebase.
The player is free in ways to achieve this - he can buy, he can grind, he can ignore.
  *1st mission - get a sample of an alien assault bot
  *1st mission - get a sample of an advanced weapon or weapon booster
  *2nd mission - start a production
and so on

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

Nick Fury wrote:

Basically just a quick rehash of what jack said above. we already have factional drones in that use the arkhe model why not add the factional arkhe as a usable bot.
Bonus's to racial weapons that let you ease into using them over the firearms. The racial armor resists to accustom you to them. and maybe some slightly better fitting abilities. keep it at only 2 guns but with a better racial weapons bonus it would do slightly better. the normal 5% compared to the arkhes 2% for firearms. This gives you a lowercase entry into racial specific robots without the straight jump to the light bot. Could even reward it at the end of a longer chain of tutorial missions or something.

One argument that I have against it is that it's already easy/cheap enough to get into a light mech, you don't really need an intermediate step there.  If you give out a factional Arkhe, maybe you can do it at the end of a (more involved) tutorial instead of making the player buy it . That would also help the fact tha there really isn't a 'hook' to grab players in the early going. Allowing them to do an interesting quest for a bot upgrade might help that along too.

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

I agree with the OP first of all. Here are some thoughts and some things I would like to add myself.

First thing I heard is they are some post that says people have too much NIC (cash) in the first couple of days of gameplay. That might be true but I don't think everyone will have that possibility (thats if the dev don't change the current balance lol).  In anycase what hurts NIC/hour is the amount of items I have in my cargo since I got a combat robot (told this in an older post before). That said I believe I should get more NIC per hour in my opinion. Here is why :

- I want to PvP. pvp requires lots of NIC, it sucks NIC like a wife with your credit card on your payday... hehe.
- for PvE people, better equipment and at the end, better robots. Thus they could do more difficult missions alone or in small groups.

Here is the  beginner experience should be to my eyes: (Remember since I've already told this in an older post, its not my first time playing mmo's)

1. less griding. destroying the same robot with stupid AI over and over is not fun...its work. I play this game to have fun.

2. No story for the missions...nothing. I got a title, the objective and thats it. I don't feel immersion from this game at all. Even from the intro story. This is a big factor to me since I do read the stories and the text...yup I'm that kind of guy.

3. the missions and robots and all that is NPC (enemy and what I can shoot) are not dynamic... I know where are X robot, its all static...well from what I know right now and from a new player perspective, thats another point for fail here. Seriously, why would a faction or enemy stick around the same area for ages being destroyed LOL.

4. The land is beautiful really but its plains, plains plains, ohh a tree..plains plains..oh a mountain. mhhhh, is it that really empty. How about some type of dungeon (arena, area..well you imagine damn it) with lots of different landscape ..I don't know like a huge building that goes underground and in that underground you get into a kind of city which has lots of hallways, huge doors, lots of different heights and stuff. And you don't necessary know whats on the next corner...well might be a stupid idea but I would sure love to go there to discover whats in there thats for sure.

5. I think I've said this before but give more type of items in missions. ammo is good but thats just insulting me. I haven't done all missions but for the ones I've made, its only 20 ammo. Its not even enough for me to load my weapon...a single weapon LOL. Also, sure theres enough missions but from what I've seen myself in my assignment list, there doesn't seem to be enough at my level which I would love to have. so more missions, more versatility in missons.


In all, All i've been doing in my first day is farming a bit to get the hang of killing robots, then doing missions. Damn mission reward sucks...back to farming...seriously..its boring this way. I hate grinding. I rather play wow if I want to grind...

PS: you never have enough missions IMO.

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

Please keep in mind that the bordom is giving money it's value. If money is to easy ppl start using SoJs or any other item that is small and got a fairly low drop chance.

Making earning money fun is the last you want to do in a player driven economy that is using an exchange like market place. (I would like market places over exchanges tho. Market places mean marketeers that can be robbed.)

Ohh, and you want to make insured bots unrefinable (as a lasting effect) or the ratio between refining and insurance payout will be the lower margin for mineral prices.

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

The problem here is the same problem with new players in Steve. As a new player you get this urge to constantly move up to bigger and bigger hull/bot classes to get more guns, mods and DPS. But then, as with Steve, you run into a brick wall of performance and it is most felt in PvP when you get owned over and over by people in seemingly "less" capable stuff running mods you have no hope of using. In Steve after playing for four years of 0.0 PvP I rolled a new toon and this time I purposely remained in frigates and advanced my fitting, defensive and weapon skills all to high levels. The result was no matter what frigate I stepped into it was uber in comparision to everyone else. I then moved up into larger ships and all those skills went with me making anything I flew rather potent.

You can not think in terms of weeks with Perpetuum but rather months and years. You fail in larger bot classes because you are in to much of a hurry to advance to them. Close beta is prolly not going to run for to much longer so us new guys should just focus on having the toughest light/assault bots out there and not be crazy about getting into a heavy mech.

I have been playing about a week, with rerolling of a new toon as well, and I am in a Yagel using 2 ACs and 2 EM guns. I plan on being in that bot for some time while I build my skills.

Fighter pilots don't go from soloing in a Cessena to a high performance fighter in a week and the same applies to Perpetuum. You are understandably getting bored because there simply isn't a lot of "content" yet in the game. But, this is a closed beta and you here for testing purposes so lets grind some red crosses into the "tiles". smile

My 2 cents...as with everything your mileage may vary.

No one ever defended anything successfully. You sons of b@#*hes are going to attack, attack and attack some more!

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

Excellent post Stainless.

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

Just started a couple of days ago and I agree with some things posted, and not others.

Myself I would always like to see more bots/guns/pew-pew and the like, but before any of that can happen we need to let the dev's finish filling out what we have now, or we will end up with a STO scenario where lots of people start, say "This kinda sucks"  and quit.  Allowing the devs to finish bonusing the bots we have now will go farther than having them put eleventy thousand 'steps' between the different bot classes. 

Now, and apparently many others, I also play steve and love that game, and it's precicely the equipping and time based learning that I am drawn to with this game.  Missions/grinding/mining will always be a part of any game, and as with steve(and was mentioned before)  it's always the loots that you make you real cash with.  Adding bounties to NPC's would probably help a lot with some peoples ammo to reward ratio.

In regards to the EP rate, I too would like to see that rate increased, but as I'm sure a lot of you have said or are aware of, too fast will turn this game into crap with a bunch of idiots running around in crap they shouldn't be in, thus ruining the game for others, and giving the ADD kids a month of fun, then off to the next shiny thing. 

Personally I think this game has a great deal of potential, but has the same if not more pitfalls that any sandbox style game has, the most major of which, in my opinion, is keeping the new and more experienced players engaged in actually interesting activities, and as with steve you'll have those people that just want to mine, but need to pay players to protect them, who will be attacked by raiders, which will start a corporate war, which will need supplies etc etc. 

My main point being sure voice your ideas here as the dev's want, but please don't start flame wars here, wait till the official game forums open and hate each other there, keep this place for improving the game.

Oh, BTW, agreeing with another post, current graphics will kill this game, and plz allow me to resize the chatbox.

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

Just going over what you typed Shattered, tell me if I miss the mark.

Bounties added to bots? Isn't that similar to how kernels reimburse bot hunters currently?

Ep rate increased? Really matters more in first month than it does in the next 5 from what I hear. Think you get it though.

Missing activities. Well, ask anyone who played eve that plays this and no longer plays eve... we're missing something. Lets try to find it and put it in PPO.

Graphics overhaul on the way. (I think). Also, remember Castor in eve, phew bad graphics! 

I hear they're working on font sizes for chat.

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

I desperately want to contribute but I have no idea what the thread is about :-(

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

Kwitch wrote:

Just going over what you typed Shattered, tell me if I miss the mark.

Bounties added to bots? Isn't that similar to how kernels reimburse bot hunters currently?

Ep rate increased? Really matters more in first month than it does in the next 5 from what I hear. Think you get it though.

Missing activities. Well, ask anyone who played eve that plays this and no longer plays eve... we're missing something. Lets try to find it and put it in PPO.

Graphics overhaul on the way. (I think). Also, remember Castor in eve, phew bad graphics! 

I hear they're working on font sizes for chat.

I may have misunderstood the point of the kernels then, I assumed it was simply loot like anything else or some of the more 'specialized' drops in other games. 

EP rate I'm fine with it now, just like everyone else in the beta I want to see as much as humanly possible while doing this.

Font sizes would be nice, I just mean the amount of screen the chat window takes up though, not the size of the lettering.

I was hoping, almost assuming the graphics would be better for release, but want for sure.

But yeah, i see your point overall, including activities, although I have not experienced pvp in this game yet, I am eager to try that as well

Last edited by Shattersparkz (2010-06-28 20:07:19)

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

(somehow managed to reply to the wrong thread. whoops)

Also managed somehow not to edit my farked up post, and rather type a new one.  I should get some sleep -.-

Last edited by Kwitch (2010-06-28 20:30:23)

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

Shattersparkz wrote:

I have not experienced pvp in this game yet, I am eager to try that as well

Your max range is 1000m to see enemies. Expect to be shot at for your entire life bar if you're in anything less than a mech at that range within 1-2 seconds of entering someone's 1000m killzone. Unless you somehow get close to them somewhat ever marginally, then expect them to run away out of your sight and go hide somewhere to snipe at you again.

sniping is too prevalent, but fotm is fotm for a reason.

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

datamax wrote:

I would like to raise a few issues with the current "new player experience"

Assuming that most new players are going to start with combat, and until agent missions are introduced that might have an additional reward. A player will have to collect drone kernels and loot to refine/sell to gain access to the next tier bot.

Curently. the time required for a player to transition from their introduction machine to something a little better is prohibitive. To capture the interest and try to give the new player the feeling of progress and ownership, and a greater reason to come back, they shoould be able to see a visible progression within 2-4 hours.

A few ways i believe this could be approached to reduce the current grind time .

1) TUTORIAL - a series of tasks that introduce and involve the pilot in various aspects of the game. kill some npc to recover a license copy. scan and mine some ore, harvest some plants. do 1 level of research. and build one unit of XXX bot . which is the players reward for completing the tasks.

2) TRANSITION - add 1-XX new robots that are a transition between starter and light . prices at around 200-300k NIC. possible based on 1 per race, with 1 less turret slot and 50% of the bonus that a light would give.

3) ITEM BALANCE - possible increase the drop rate of kernels from the standard "drone" . care would have to be taken to ensure the NIC/hour ratio is maintained so that higher level players dont gain from farming these. possible increase the ammo drop rate/ammount by 10-20%

I agree that the new player experience needs some work.  I started the game a few days ago and it seems like I have two options for making money.  Kill an infinite number of drones or mine... and mining looks like more of a grind than drone genocide...

I agree with your transition ideas but think they should also take steps to make the crafting system more open to entry level players.  Perhaps make a tutorial experience that will grant them a few kernels, teach them a new design and have them build something worthwhile as a reward for going through the tutorial?

Last edited by Aegis (2010-07-07 20:58:22)

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

The one issue that I had was thinking that the Machine Guns on my Arkhe were somehow an indicator that said projectile weapon was what my race was meant to use.  I would suggest that each race starts with a slightly modified Arkhe with a small racial bonus and the racial weapon type as the main weapon.  Then have a machine gun in your station storage so you can equip one, if you so chose.

Just a suggestion.

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

I find it odd that grinding drones yeilds more NIC/Hr than killing the next tier up bots (eg promethus/castel)

Drones always drop undamaged weapons and they are right next to the beginner stations so the travel time from kill zone to cargo drop off point is minimal and the loot dropped doesn't cost you anything to repair it before you sell it, and the dronesw drop more ammo than it takes to kill them. so it's all pure profit.

Examples: I've been playing for a few days, I'm now in a Prometheus. If I load up with 3 autocannons and grind drones, the drones drop more ammunition than I use, so my ammo costs are nil. Less than nill actuall. I can make a profit by selling autocannon ammo.
Add to that fact that miner modules are only .5U and sell for a decent amount and you get a recipe for an unbalanced risk/reward scenario. there is more risk killing other promethues' but there is less reward than killing drones. Unless you count the very rare "lvl 1 decoders" they drop which can sell for a staggering 10k. oh yay.

Couple of suggestions:
* Greatly Reduce the damage % of dropped gear from high level bots and drastically increase ammo drops to the point where you should be expected to atleast break even in the same type of bot (or close to). ie if I'm in a prometheus with 4 lasers fighting a scorpion (prometheus) have the rate of ammo dropped be consistent with the amount of ammo used to destroy it.

eg. if it has 700hp and i'm doing an average of 22 damage per shot, that should require a minimum of 32 ammo per kill (not including bonuses and skills). have the loot table drop between 15 and 50 laser ammo per kill.

* Increase drop rate of items from higher level bots to make them worth hunting (they take longer to killl and are located further away)

* Reduce npc buy price of small miner modules to about the same prce as small autocannons (still makes them decent loot for newbies but makes them less attraactive for 2nd level bots)

* Make the rewards from missions actually worthwhile. Why the heck would I recover 7 data files from scorpions for 7.5k nic, and have to pay 40k in ammo to kill them when in the same amount of time i could make 120k killing drones with zero expenditure?

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

Not true.  It all depends on your skill and dps vs your target.

If you dont have high dps, then the higher level targets will repair much more during the fight, making the total hp to kill them much higher than their actual hp.

Higher level bots are definitely higher reward in almost any case, you just have to know what you're doing to make it profitable.

The missions currently are only for their reward items, which cant be gained in any other way. Only the seriously pvp-minded players will even bother getting the higher level missions.  Yes, they do need to be changed.

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

Ok, played about a week.

Initially killed a few Drones - but died because I didn't have the Bot Status window open and didn't realize I was taking damage.

Got a new bot and went exploring to see what I could kill.... Quickly learned that Being able to outrange things was a great way to kill them without dying and that ammo costs sucked. Put points into targeting range skill and started using suicidal noob bots to do my ratting with (spending nothing on ammo).

At this point I tried a mission that was geared towards killing the same type of critters I was already killing.  Wasn't impressed.  The mission had me run to 3 different locations and I didn't feel that the reward was enough to pay for the transit time.

After a couple days, I got into an EW Light bot - primarily because of the range and speed.  This allowed me to wander around and kill random bots/mechs to see what kind of loot I would find.  Eventually settled upon one type of rat that I could kill easy enough and dropped sufficient loot. 

Still using light bots, ratting, and just collecting EPs.

The rate of EP gain is probably about right, I certainly wouldn't want it to be slower.  But if the feeling is that it takes too little time to get to the top of the totem - the answer is to increase the prerequisite levels.  Instead of 3's or 4's... make those 5's and 6's.  Especially Going from Basic Bot to Advanced - that should probably require level 7 Basic.

TLDR: Missions suck. EP rate is certainly not too fast but prerequisite levels could probably be increased for some things.

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

(new player)

I've been in the game for about a day's worth of time.  I remember the beta days of EvE, so I take everything with a grain of salt.

Its an interesting game, and a new concept.  Its a huge challenge to compare this game to a highly developed game such as EvE.  So I wont.

As a new player initial impressions were good.  I was impressed by the load time of the game, rather fast! and during avatar creation I was turned off by the quality of the avatars. Perhaps a stylistic approach, but I immediately was put back by it. 

Created my avatar, had a hard time finding the green arrow to move on! (lol, ya that HUGE GREEN arrow...I was like ...where is the little black next button at the bottom of the dialog window?? wife pointed it out..all is good).

I'm not much into reading the various settings for adjusting my initial starting skills in avatar creation but it seemed very similar to another game and almost equally pointless once I found out how it modified my skills by that nice little colorized bar chart thingy in the corner.  That helped allot.

I got in game, tried to do the tutorial..had to leave and log..came back...couldn't find the tutorial again..someone said you had to right click the ENTER button...ok..tried that..and guess what its totally broken!  I then entered a station and used the button there...

WHY IS THIS SO HIDDEN??

Tutorial too short, didn't learn a whole lot...tried to mine and mined stuff that was worthless..yay....

Ditched that avatar made a combat one...

combat is easy and fun, grinding drones.. for a an hour...then it gets to be a bit annoying and boring.  I'd say this is expected later in the game but would recommend improving this and upping the dynamics of it to keep interest. 

Killed drones, tried to do a mission, level 1 mission? I should be able to do that right? WRONG...forget it, back to beginner missions...bleh waste of time again.  Better off camping spawn points forever to get my 400k or so to get a new robot hull...

Did a delivery mission...forced me to learn how to use the teleport stations and the world map..thats cool, did it..got a little lost but thats fun learning all the strange names for everything and how to get about...  Not sure what standings do for me yet...went back to grinding drones back where I started...

Some things to note:

  • Tutorial needs work, expect it to improve in time, fix the button..why is it hidden???

  • Why did I mine worthless stuff in the tutorial? why not mine something good?

  • Uninteresting drones, more diversity plz

  • Avatars are fugly

  • Associate avatars (or faces) to NPC corps and missions

  • Why are the station graphics so bad?  Improve the quality of the textures

  • More dynamic environment, trees and hills..bleh..no water effects?  What about weather effects?  Tunnels?  And why cant I go down this hill?  some all terrain robot I am...give me 4 wheels instead.

  • Allow players to choose a weapon of choice at the start without being gimped.  I want lasers too but I cant get em, and when I buy em..I will have to buy all the ammo..why bother??

  • I assume there will be an intro movie at some time explaining what the heck is going on?

  • Didn't try grouping, dosn't seem to be much reason too...allot of new players around me and nobody talks. (including me, typical)

Overall, the game is good but I have no real desire to continue grinding drones to get into the next robot hull yet.  Maybe when I understand the game more and make more ISK err I mean NIC.

BTW, the robots are kinda fugly..and why does my spider bot walk animation not interact wtih my speed on the ground properly???

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

I'm only a week old, but let me try to help newb to newb

Viziel wrote:

[1]Tutorial needs work, expect it to improve in time, fix the button..why is it hidden???
[2]Why did I mine worthless stuff in the tutorial? why not mine something good?
[3]Uninteresting drones, more diversity plz
[4]Avatars are fugly
[5]Associate avatars (or faces) to NPC corps and missions
[6]Why are the station graphics so bad?  Improve the quality of the textures
[7]More dynamic environment, trees and hills..bleh..no water effects?  What about weather effects?  Tunnels?  And why cant I go down this hill?  some all terrain robot I am...give me 4 wheels instead.
[8]Allow players to choose a weapon of choice at the start without being gimped.  I want lasers too but I cant get em, and when I buy em..I will have to buy all the ammo..why bother??
[9]I assume there will be an intro movie at some time explaining what the heck is going on?
[10]Didn't try grouping, dosn't seem to be much reason too...allot of new players around me and nobody talks. (including me, typical)

1) I managed to crash the tutorial myself and have never ran it so ... I agree in part
2) Because if they stuck valuable stuff point blank on the station that would cause major issues - you learning to mine shouldn't be at the cost of heavy mechs mining titan ore directly on the station
3) You have basic arkhe's with autos and <racial> arkhe's that sport one missile/laser/EM gun.  Once you get past shooting newbie bots the variety increases - 3 lights, 3 assaults, 3 ewar's and various combinations and fits
4) Yes, they could be better but they also are unimportant
5) Wouldn't make sense because humans actually aren't on the planet, the assignments are more like bulletin board listings of tasks
6) The textures could be better, but simple textures also run faster
7) I've seen fog, and on the beach you see waves and such.  Each robot has a different gradient scale it can handle for balance.  56 degree slope is fairly all terrain IMO, that would be difficult to walk up for humans, let alone at 50 kph.  All terrain hummers can't even race up that slope without using low pressure tires and going slow - you'd be changing wheels constantly tongue
8) You did, check your skills
9) The story is on the forum, which is sufficient for a beta test
10) The level of difficulty really jumps up after you get past the arkhe's.  My corp of EVE buddies have different spawns we do with 2, 3, 4, and 5 people and each pays better than the one before.

For saying "you take things with a grain of salt" you're making sweeping generalizations based on shooting newbie bots in a newbie bot.  That would be like me judging EVE based on an hour in an ibis.

Last edited by Darin Raltin (2010-08-03 17:50:54)

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

Thanks for the quick reply!

So now for the point, counter-point.  Since I feel the need to defend myself even though I wasn't looking for player feedback...

Worthless mining junk... I agree, you don't want people crowding the newbie area.  Thats wh you dont put very valuable stuff there..  just something so you can make a bit of money.  In theory, it should be on scale with grinding drones no?  NO? YES?  good!

Avatars being unimportant...really?  I disagree.  I associate more with a face than the robots..they have like 16 eyes!  I'd say ditch em if they are unimportant.

Again, with assignments...Okay so there are no humans on the planet..I got that, so again why involve them at all?  There must be SOMEONE issuing these missions eh? Or are robots giving me the assignments?  No?

I dont pay monthly for simple textures, upgrade your PC. Raise the bar, don't lower it.

Ah there is more than trees and ground..good to know, I will have to do more exploring.

When I came into the game, I was given an autocannon...not a laser...and if I grind drones I get auto cannon ammo..not laser cells..so how does this allow me to start off with different weapons again?

Story is on the forum, sufficient for a beta test? perhaps for you, but I am not beta testing the beta test.  I'm trying to provide feedback as to my experiences as a new player in this game to help whomever is listening (Dev's) as to what I think / feel about this interesting new game.  I would report to them what I expect.

Thats good to hear you have some friends to do spawns with.  I haven't had the chance to make or joing one yet...may give it a go later on.  I play solo mostly so that works against me in most online games.

Sweeping generalizations is what I do, and the prupose of this post, take it or leave it but dont complain about my opinion..

Thanks!













Viziel wrote:

(new player)

I've been in the game for about a day's worth of time.  I remember the beta days of EvE, so I take everything with a grain of salt.

Its an interesting game, and a new concept.  Its a huge challenge to compare this game to a highly developed game such as EvE.  So I wont.

As a new player initial impressions were good.  I was impressed by the load time of the game, rather fast! and during avatar creation I was turned off by the quality of the avatars. Perhaps a stylistic approach, but I immediately was put back by it. 

Created my avatar, had a hard time finding the green arrow to move on! (lol, ya that HUGE GREEN arrow...I was like ...where is the little black next button at the bottom of the dialog window?? wife pointed it out..all is good).

I'm not much into reading the various settings for adjusting my initial starting skills in avatar creation but it seemed very similar to another game and almost equally pointless once I found out how it modified my skills by that nice little colorized bar chart thingy in the corner.  That helped allot.

I got in game, tried to do the tutorial..had to leave and log..came back...couldn't find the tutorial again..someone said you had to right click the ENTER button...ok..tried that..and guess what its totally broken!  I then entered a station and used the button there...

WHY IS THIS SO HIDDEN??

Tutorial too short, didn't learn a whole lot...tried to mine and mined stuff that was worthless..yay....

Ditched that avatar made a combat one...

combat is easy and fun, grinding drones.. for a an hour...then it gets to be a bit annoying and boring.  I'd say this is expected later in the game but would recommend improving this and upping the dynamics of it to keep interest. 

Killed drones, tried to do a mission, level 1 mission? I should be able to do that right? WRONG...forget it, back to beginner missions...bleh waste of time again.  Better off camping spawn points forever to get my 400k or so to get a new robot hull...

Did a delivery mission...forced me to learn how to use the teleport stations and the world map..thats cool, did it..got a little lost but thats fun learning all the strange names for everything and how to get about...  Not sure what standings do for me yet...went back to grinding drones back where I started...

Some things to note:

  • Tutorial needs work, expect it to improve in time, fix the button..why is it hidden???

  • Why did I mine worthless stuff in the tutorial? why not mine something good?

  • Uninteresting drones, more diversity plz

  • Avatars are fugly

  • Associate avatars (or faces) to NPC corps and missions

  • Why are the station graphics so bad?  Improve the quality of the textures

  • More dynamic environment, trees and hills..bleh..no water effects?  What about weather effects?  Tunnels?  And why cant I go down this hill?  some all terrain robot I am...give me 4 wheels instead.

  • Allow players to choose a weapon of choice at the start without being gimped.  I want lasers too but I cant get em, and when I buy em..I will have to buy all the ammo..why bother??

  • I assume there will be an intro movie at some time explaining what the heck is going on?

  • Didn't try grouping, dosn't seem to be much reason too...allot of new players around me and nobody talks. (including me, typical)

Overall, the game is good but I have no real desire to continue grinding drones to get into the next robot hull yet.  Maybe when I understand the game more and make more ISK err I mean NIC.

BTW, the robots are kinda fugly..and why does my spider bot walk animation not interact wtih my speed on the ground properly???

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

(A new challenger approaches!)

someone who responds to replies. I will have to be extra careful in how I word a response, don't want to leave any confusion in my explanations. You're not looking for player feedback, yet you post in many topics hash criticisms on pretty standard threads and share your own?

Viziel wrote:

    [1]Tutorial needs work, expect it to improve in time, fix the button..why is it hidden???

Has been requested. Is more or less low on the list. As closed beta testers, our comments are useful... but what they really need data on is economy, pvp, resource gathering. Sure, lets put a permanent button somewhere.
   

[2]Why did I mine worthless stuff in the tutorial? why not mine something good?

Why did you post in the topic about mining solidbit a reply that was counter-productive to getting this changed? Why was your response 'omg, why did you ask me to post in the relevant topic'?
 

[3]Uninteresting drones, more diversity plz

Closed beta, lets have developers work on game code for function before putting the npc's in frilly dresses.
 

[4]Avatars are fugly

*points up*
 

[5]Associate avatars (or faces) to NPC corps and missions

Yes, because that is an important feature that will make or break game balance. We should have the limited team of one person that is fixing broken graphics work on tarting your avatar up.
 

[6]Why are the station graphics so bad?  Improve the quality of the textures

*points up*
   

[7]More dynamic environment, trees and hills..bleh..no water effects?  What about weather effects?  Tunnels?  And why cant I go down this hill?  some all terrain robot I am...give me 4 wheels instead.

At least three threads about this that I can think of. It's cool that you're posting it here though, where no changes are requested or proposed, just griping. I am sure this is productive.
 

[8]Allow players to choose a weapon of choice at the start without being gimped.  I want lasers too but I cant get em, and when I buy em..I will have to buy all the ammo..why bother??

Can we give them heavy mechs, full extensions, and their own outposts when they start too? Perhaps a fully stocked minibar? go back to wow.
 

[9]I assume there will be an intro movie at some time explaining what the heck is going on?

Closed. Beta. No. Funding. Quit. ***.
   

[10]Didn't try grouping, dosn't seem to be much reason too...allot of new players around me and nobody talks. (including me, typical)

At least you recognized that you are part of the problem for 1/10 of your complaints.


Closed beta still. You are a tester. If you don't understand something, ask. If you don't get an answer that helps you, ask again. I have yet to see you 'ask' for anything. All I've seen is 'I wouldn't pay for this' bs type comments like your farts don't stink. This is not a release candidate for a game. We all have experienced the same tutorial, the same struggles with learning a new system, and look at the same graphics. Yet we post constructive posts in the correct places so Dev's can read them, consider them, and maybe we change things.

Why the focused fire? A favor returned. Also, your 'opinion' is completely worthy of complaints if you meant to influence anyone by them. Because then you are a candidate for being incorrect.

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

I dont understand what you mean about the mining posts...confused.

I simply felt like the tutorial for mining could be more rewarding than mining junk.  Isn't there a low level material that could be mined instead?

Why do people go on about this being beta when people posts their suggestions..

Does anyone read this theads topic?

Anyway, I'm not gonna respond to this topic anymore as its turning into a flame war.  My opinions are posted.

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

Second:
[2]Why did I mine worthless stuff in the tutorial? why not mine something good?

Third:
Why did you post in the topic about mining solidbit a reply that was counter-productive to getting this changed? Why was your response 'omg, why did you ask me to post in the relevant topic'?

Fourth:
I dont understand what you mean about the mining posts...confused.

First:
All I can say, is ya..I dont search for existing topics on forums before posting.. I BROWSE the existing topics and respond to them. I dont have the time or energy to go digging up existing topics.  If its not hot or relevant it dosnt appear at the top of the list on a given topic I wont bother reading it.

Seems to be an issue with forum users, always people telling others what to do...pfft.
from:
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … al-mining/

So:
My response was meant to provide insight. Saying you mined worthless stuff in one thread, then going into another and saying 'i don't want to post in the correct thread' when the process of cross-posting like that is finding a relevant thread and posting in it... just seemed like you were doing what you said you don't do, and thus contradicting yourself.

I merely pointed it out in hopes that you post your ideas in a contributing way.

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: beginner experience - grind or no grind?

This may not exactly be on topic but relates to newbies allot.  The  standard newbie  guns you get on your  starter  bot should not use ammunition.  I mean yah  it would be a free  shot but  who in there  right mind  wouldn't change up if they could afford  it.  Ammo  costs  so much for  a  beginner to buy  specially when their skill  are bad  so there shots miss allot and  don't hit for nearly anything.  So this  would help them   get started a bit faster.   This is how EVE-online  does it btw.  Civilian  guns  don't take  charges  there.