(4 replies, posted in Resolved bugs and features)

Prinses wrote:

and now it popped up when i tried stack all in my private inventory...

It's a lag issue. It happens when you attempt to perform another action before the previous finishes. The real bug here is that you sometimes need to perform another action in order to refresh the previous one, and then get the second action cancelled.

Like I said, it's a lag bug, but it seems to hang sometimes.


(21 replies, posted in Balancing)

Allthough I agree with some of the ideas you've posted, I'm not too keen on all of them.

Speed: indeed, atm I can equip my assault bot to be faster than my light bot, so light bots need more base speed to make up for it. Otherwise they'll just be inferior in every way.

Size: I don't feel that assault bots need to be bigger. Atm thye are easy enough to hit with light weapons. No need to make them fodder for bigger guns. Could perhaps make light bots slightly smaller, but that might be a bit op.

Sensor strength: Sure, why not. Sounds good.

Locking: definately needed. I feel modifying the base is better than having this as a bonus however.

Weapons and armour: a bit hesitant here. I think it might be a good idea to add another slot for utilities for the light bots to make it more balanced.

Bonuses: as a matter of fact, I feel the Prometheus' bonuses are really weak compared to the Baphomet. Any change to the Prometheus would be welcome imo. The only really useful bonus is the damage bonus imo.

In regards to swapping the locking ranges, I have to say I disagree. The light robots could have a bonus to locking range however, as this would be in line with the role you propose to give them. It would also mean that a more specialized pilot would be a better tackler/scout, so that there would be good rewards for advancing in that role.

Overall I agree though, light bots could do with a different focus.

lol, ok allow me to http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … f-modules/ it

Fumen wrote:

You're exactly right. There is no perfect system. I'll pull Everquest 2 and World of Warcraft in here. Both have a system where not only is the looting locked to the party that killed the mob, the mob gets locked to the party that first pulled aggro (in order to prevent kill stealing). The big exploit here is that I've seen higher level players run through an area, train everything, and then aoe it to death. They repeat this every time the groups start respawning. The problem: the players the content is designed towards can't get in on any of it or have to pull it faster than the other guy. (FYI, he's getting nothing from it other than the loot. EQ2 even went to the point of not dropping any loot on 'grey' xp mobs. Farmers still did it because there was cheap, low gp corpse items that added up over time.)

And this is where my opinion comes in. It takes a lot of programming effort to implement a theft mechanic. If it doesn't do what you want it to do, then why bother adding all that extra bit of code?

Why spend all that time adding something that strictly speaking doesn't add anything to the game, when you know that it wont add anything new to the game, and you know that it can be exploited to do excactly the opposite of what it was intended to do?

I believe every person that has posted in favor of a theft mechanic wants it implemeted for the good of the "carebear" (I don't really like this expression, as it's very rarely accurate).

Trust me, I'm a bleeding heart carebear myself. Not that I wont pvp, but I refuse to abuse game mechanics in order to "force" people to pvp. There are usually plenty of people in the designated pvp areas (in other games),  and if not, then I'll just go do something else. Why limit yourself to one activity?

I like to help people, IRL as well as in games. The rewards are usually better, and the feeling of having acomplished something is far better. Implementing a theft mechanic would limit my ability to allow newbies to tag along and grab my loot. If it doesn't benefit newbies at all (which quite frankly I don't see any of your suggestions doing), then why bother at all?

To me, it seems like all the mechanics do is prevent me from being a friendly helpful random stranger. How does that benefit the game, or the developers?

At coordinates 964.00 1426.00 on Daoden, there are some (3) rookie mantises stuck in a pit. They don't agro, and they pretty much just walk back and forth on the same tile.

Previously, this was not the case. All the npc's in the general area worked fine until two days ago.

Edit: there are two others that seems to work as intended. I've killed these a few times, but as I kill them faster then they spawn, I tend to move on to the scorpions a bit further down.

Edit 2: was back to normal a about an hour ago. I'll check again later.

02:25: npc stuck at 820 : 1367

Mr White wrote:

If they follow, let a gm know. I'm sure they won't think very kindly of players harrasing other players.

I see that griefers are "the bad guys" in this case, but i dont think GM-s should protect anyone, because GM protection can also be exploited. The rules should handle this, and i still see loot stealing as one of the lesser griefings, that ppl can live with.

That's not quite what I meant. It's one thing to steal a persons loot, it's a completely different thing to single one player out for theft. When you start to follow players around to steal their loot only, you are making one persons life a misery. This is where it goes from simple theft to harrasment in my opinion. How to implement a mechinc to stop this from ever happening is beyond me.

If you stick to one area however, this can be a tactic to chase others away so that you can have the area for yourself. For example, on Daoden, there is only one place where Thelodica drones spawn (the Arkhe variant that drops lasers). If one player is camping this site, then there is no "easy" way for new players to obtain lasers. Here I think it's very valid to steal.

Gzha wrote:

I'll be up front.  I have been in game all of a week at this point.  By day 2 I had already experienced someone following me from drone to drone, looting my kills.  The character would not engage in combat.  There were no consequences, certainly no revenge.  At a point in which I was building nic for my first mech, I was not rich.  The other player caused me lost ammunition and time for his (her?) gain.

I'm not advocating can flipping.  I am advocating consequences for hostile actions.  I acknowledge that this is only a genuine issue in noob land.  Being out of tower range presents reasonable opportunity to obtain satisfaction from a thief.

Well, what makes you so sure he won't wtfpwn you once yo ushoot him? What makes you so sure you 'll get that bittersweet taste of revenge? If he's got better skills and equipment than you, chances are you'll just wind up loosing more.

Even worse, you are farly balanced as far as skills and gear go, but then suddenle you realize that he had friends. But just make sure they aren't part of the equation so they can't shoot me you say? Ok, but they had remote reppers, tough luck.

I think you're better off if you just convo him/her, and ask why they don't go someplace else. If they don't want to move, then you move. If they follow, let a gm know. I'm sure they won't think very kindly of players harrasing other players.

Fumen wrote:

What about the guy that's been playing for 6 months or a year? He's already racked up tens of millions in NIC and burned up nearly as much in lost bots and gear? Is he "trying to get rich, too" or just griefing the newbs?

And how will it help if you are able to shoot him? I think it will do excactly the opposite of what you desire, unfortunately. Again, if I have that much better gear, and that much better skills, I'll wtfpwn you no matter what. Besides, I'll most likely bring friends along as well. See above for more info.

I've already posted ways of getting around the other suggestions you've come up with. I'm not going to agree until you find a solution that I can't exploit. Even though I believe someone wil find a way to exploit it, I'll agree if you can come up with one solution that I can't figure out how to exploit.

Tracking how much damage you've done compared to me? No problem, with better skills, I'll out dps you anyways. Tracing who had agression from the rats? You might be on to something here, but I can still agress the whole mob, and just keep wandering around outside their locking range, thus forcing you to either move on, or accept the fact that you are spending ammo for my benefit.

Shouldn't they have bigger cargo holds anyways? I think they ought to anyways.

Edit: the minig bots that is. They're pretty weak as it is, and have few advantages. A bit more cargo can't do any harm.

Fumen wrote:

Anything you do, short of not allowing anyone else to loot a can, will allow for griefing. At least with aggression timers, you can exact some revenge. I think EVE causes the guy to be flagged to your whole corp.

Allthough I agree, how do you determine who "anyone else" is? Say for instance, you are farming npc's, I come along, wait until the npc is almost dead, then I fire, and voila, the loot belongs to me. That sounds like griefing to me.

Change the mechanic a bit, now the loot belongs to the person that did the most damage. Ok, same scenario, butn this time I have superior stats, and better equipment. Thus you're just helping me kill the npc's faster.

Yes eve allows your whole corp to retaliate, but this is rarely taken advantage of. The mechanic is mostly used to grief people who don't understand how the mechanic works. The terminology for this is "can baiting".

Besides, in eve they don't consider this griefing, it's "non-consentual pvp". I think that's a load of horse manure, but one thing is correct: it is a sand box approach.

I don't know, but as you have more experience with mmo's, maybe you can figure out something that griefers can't abuse? I'm not that experienced with other games, so I've only seen how it starts out as a jolly good idea and ends up with loads of forum rage.

Can ownership for mined/harvested stuff that is dropped for transport by a corp mate/alt, that is a different story. This might be a good idea.

Fumen wrote:

No, not everyone is familiar with the term "can flipping." A significant number of players have played EVE, but there's a significant number that hasn't. A brief explanation: Stealing another players goods out of a loot canister and leaving it in one of your own. Said player comes back to claim their loot. If they take it, they have stolen from you even though you stole from that player. That flags the player so he/she can be shot at without intervention from the local police. Said pew pew commences and a wreck is made, usually of the player that got flipped, though occasionally the can flipper gets popped.

Some sort of flagging/anti-theft measure needs to be implemented, be it an aggression timer allowing the player to shoot the thief or looting prevention (nobody can loot that can for x minutes, after which it's a free-for-all, or even just locking it permanently until decay).

I'll agree that one great tactic for dealing with this would be to draw them out in to an open PvP area and just light 'em up. That's assuming they're not quite smart enough to realize they probably won't win the fight. (And if you're doing this not knowing you can win, you probably shouldn't be doing it.)

No, not everyone knows the term "can flipping", but I was talking to the op, which I'm sure is familiar with the expression.

My point however, is that the theft mechanics in eve were designed to help prevent noobs getting their stuff stolen, but it ended up with becoming a mechanic for older player to bait noobs in to getting an agression flag, and thus there was much rejoicing (amongst griefers).

This is why I think it's better if it's left as it is, because exactly the same thing will happen here if theft mechanics are implemented. The original idea is good, but there is just no way to ensure that it actually benefits the people it's meant to benefit. Believe me, I've given this much thought, and there'snothing short of policetower pwnage that will actually benefit the common noob.

Now, I'm sure most players will agree that police tower pwnage is a bit op for simple theft. Regarding the can being locked away, that kind of spoils things a bit. For a sand box game, I'm not sure that is a very good solution. And then arises the question: then who will be allowed to obtain the can?

The person who killed the rat? Well, who killed it? Final blow or most damage done? And then what, can your corp loot it, or just you?

Can of worms I tell you. It only gets worse as you ask more questions. I say, leave as is. Sounds very right for the backstory, and it also sounds very sandboxy to me.

Hm, that's a very iffy subject. I'm sure you are familiar with the term "can flipping". I don't really have any problems with loot being free for all. I sometimes pop a mech here and there to help newer players out, and I don't really want them to be worried about getting shot if they take the loot.

Theft mechanics is a can of worms that I'd rather they did not open. If you have problems with people stealing your stuff, then you can always go someplace else, or get a friend to grab the loot for you. Just gotta be quicker than the other guy is all.

And if they follow you, just head out to a non-safe area (no police turrets) and punish them for their ignorance yarr


(8 replies, posted in Resolved bugs and features)

Felicia wrote:

Oh so its not the new shield animation? lol

lol, that would be kind of cool actually. Kind of like the shield effect in the first Dune movie (you know, the one where Sting plays).


(1 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

I'm not sure we actually have satelites in perpetuum. But better ways to find squad m8's would be welcome imo.


(21 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

DEV Zoom wrote:

Hotkeys for many functions including targeting will get in soon.

Missions and beginner tutorials will of course be a part of the final game. We know that starting out is a bit hard now without those, but we didn't want to rebalance things just because of this. It is a closed betatest for a reason, you are expected to cope with the problems at hand and not get frustrated for not being entertained enough wink

Omg, I fail! I've been having a great time since the very first second I logged in.

On topic: internal buy order for corps/alliances. As in right click, "sell to corp". So you would set up buy orders for members only, and have unrestricted amounts, the idea being to reward miners in the corp with better prices without having outsiders take advantage, and of course so that the competition can't see what prices you are offering.


(8 replies, posted in Q & A)

When the game goes live, I intend to have two accounts, but I would also like to see how well dual boxing works.

If I want to set up a second account for beta, is that ok? And if yes, how do I go about doing so?

Will I need a second email adress (not a problem on my side), or can I just use the same one?

I believe there will be a lot of potential for people dual boxing and multi accounting in this game. Have you got a policy for this yet, or have you not considered this?


(8 replies, posted in Balancing)

Fumen wrote:

I'm going to have to agree with you here, Mr White. Use two distinct modules with different bonuses: one for range, one for tracking. Both can be used at the same time. Of course, with the sniper version, you might just need to fit a sensor amp to be able to utilize the extra range you get with the "sniper" module.

Well, I also want to agree with this lol

Didn't say I thought it was a great idea, but never the less can see the logic in how it works atm. A sniper module would add more flavor.

Black Punisher wrote:

maybe it's part of a balance? small bots have good tracking, they dont need tracking tunnings, but mechs and heavy mechs can fit this device for better tracking and range,  its quite faur

Unless I want to speed tank a smaller bot. In that case, I would want better tracking, as I would move in close and attempt to avoid the bigger bots tracking. Another thing is, as there doesn't appear to be a dedicated module for increasing range atm, this leaves smaller bots out of loop of sniping.

So either make the tracking enhancer available for smaller bots as well, or split the bonuses in to two modules.


(4 replies, posted in General discussion)

Fumen wrote:

Check your map. There's bases on every island so far. I'm betting in live there's going to be islands with no bases, and likely later in beta once player run structures and terraforming are implemented. (If not, then the devs might take that as a suggestion.)

Yeah, I did check the map, and I only saw one terminal on each island. I thought maybe you had to actually find them before they'd show up on the map tongue

Ah well, maybe if we get teleporters or something things will be faster.

Black Punisher wrote:

second account with sequer(freighter bot) wiil help you=)
each isle has one terminal

I have been considering signing up for a second account, but wasn't sure if that was allowed for beta. I guess I'll try to sign up for one. Until then, I'll just bring a friend big_smile


(8 replies, posted in Balancing)

100 reactor seems a bit harsh. That means they can't be used for the smaller bots, which I feel is a shame sad

Now regarding optimal range: optimal is tracking! Or rather, if you move further away from your target, he'll need to move faster in order to get enough trans vertical speed to avoid your turrets tracking him.

I.E: your turrets can do a full 360 turn in 4 seconds. To move faster than that at 10m range, your enemy would need to move 15.55m/s to avoid your turrets. At 20m range, your enemy would need to move 31,1m/s to avoid your turrets.

That's just an example (and my hobby maths might be full of fail), and that might not be exactly how it works in perpetuum, because there are other things to factor in (probably), but I'm sure that's the basic premise of tracking.

I was just curious, what makes a person be classed as an active player? Does forum activity play in to it (or do you feel the player should be playing the game instead?), or just plain time spend logged on shooting people (or harvesting I suppose)?

And if so, how many hours do you feel cerifies "active"? I'll start by saying I play about two hours on weekdays, and I play about 4 hours a day on weekends (depending on how tired I am).

How many hours do you play?


(14 replies, posted in Open discussion)

PEW PEW LAZORZ! Nuff said lol

Okay, not really. I wanna be a squad leader. Take people in to combat, protect mining convoys, and keep filthy pirates away from my precious loot. I might pick up logistics and ewar so I can remain versatile and fill more than one role.

Im also considering getting a trader alt, so I don't have to grind for money all the time.


(4 replies, posted in General discussion)

I've not been to the pvp islands, allthough I plan on paying a visit soon. Question is, is there a base on those? And is there more than one base on the starter islands?

The thing is, last night I decided to go exploring a little bit on Daoden, and I came across some bigger bots, and decided to engage. I found they dropped some interesting loot, so I decoded to pop some more of them.

Eventually my cargo filled up, and I had to go back to the station to offload. In the end, I had made a little bit more than I make on the usual light drones that I tend to farm, but the travel time meant that the CID/h was much worse because I had to travel so far. My bot ca nmove 70m/s, because I'm fitted for speed rather than tank (yes, I'm impatient), so it's not like I'm travelling slowly.

This got me thinking, could I set up camp in a different base closer to the more advanced mechs?


(8 replies, posted in General discussion)

Suicide ganks don't pay insurance cool

Other than that, they've already implemented features that the eve playerbase has been begging for a long time. Not going in to too many specifics. But one thing is objects getting in the way of turrets.

Another thing is refining works quite differently. Some materials are just 1->1 conversion, but other require more than one type of material. This is a bit like moon mining in eve, but not quite.

The skill system is also quite different. Even though it might look similar at first glance, there are some major discrepancies. Like basic robots requiring two skills. And there's three bonuses on each bot, in addition to other bonuses.

I could go on and on, but for people who've only ever played eve, of course they look alike. I've played literally thousands of games, if not hundreds of thousands, and to me eve doesn't look any more unique than perpetuum does. In fact, I feel Perpetuum looks more unique.


(3 replies, posted in Resolved bugs and features)

I've seen this a few times now, and I'm not sure if it's a lag thing or not, but anyways, here's what happens: I right click something in my cargo, click sell and the sell window appears, I click ok, item does not get sold and the message appears: Database error

I then repeat, and the items is sold. Sometimes it happens more than once per item, sometimes just once. It only happens when I sell stuff out of cargo, not from personal storage. The only reason I think it might be lag related is because one time the item did not dissapear, and there was no error message.

I tried to sell it again, and nothing happened again. I then moved on to repair something, again, nothing happened, so I tried to package something in my cargo, and again nothing. So I tried to move something from cargo to the personal storage, and that's when it said database error. The item was moved, but nothing else had been done, like the item that I tried to repair was still unrepaired.

I did get the window up for selling, and I did get the window for reairing and I clicked ok on both of them.

It doesn't happen very often, but it did happen when I was the only one in the base on daoden. It also happened to me once on new virginia.


(34 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

Interesting discussion, but as I'm less than interested in mining as such, I didn't read the whole thing.

I just wanted to give my 2 cents anyways: there's a guy in my corp that says he really likes mining in perpetuum. I haven't tried it myself, but I've assisted once. As in guarding/escorting the mining bot. That's part of the fun anyways.

Secondly, I know a lot of people who actually enjoy mining in eve. Mining in eve is the most booring activity I've ever laid my eyes on. Approach asteroid, lock, activate lasers, wait. But it can be fun when done in a group. It's not so much about the actual mining, but about hanging out with people while doing something productive.

Sure, there are better ways of making money, but then you'd have to buy the materials (I know, just because you mine them, doesn't make them free. But the potential margins are better).

I like the fact that you have to do a survey in order to find the minerals. Makes things a bit more interesting. I bet it's gonna be more interesting when we get the hauler mech in game.

I get this as well. It resolves itself everytime I re-open the cargo window, so it can probably be solved by making it refresh somehow.