I think it's a good idea, but as already mentioned, it adds a lot more load to the server. It certainly adds for more varied tactics, and some interesting flavors (could add the posibility to tie in a fight).

As far as flamers go, I think that should add some heat mechanic, which is more interesting imo (think mechwarrior).

Bunkerkind Anni wrote:

btw, offtopic:
what is it with the "has" instead of "have" ?? i see that too often for a typo (like standard with "t")

Well, you can thank Mr lolcat for that one: http://icanhascheezburger.com/ Origin of locats or wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolcat

If you have any further questions, google is always ready to answer lol

Well, how about jump jets? You know, to be a bit original instead of just having a temporary speed up module.

I was thinking along the lines of:

1. Activate and choose a location within range

2. Bot gets a 300% speed boost and moves to the location of your choosing, ignoring any impassable terrain

3. Jump jets deactivate and cooldown timer starts

4. Once cooldown timer is up, you can activate the module again

Cooldown timer should probably be around 1 - 2 minutes to prevent it being abused too much. It could provide some nice tactical options, and would be a great counter to demobilizers (jump out of range and run like the wind).

I don't know, I just feel that an active module that does nothing but increase speed doesn't take full advantage of the tactical options that plateside terrain offers. In that other game, terrain rarely matters, but in perpetuum terrain already plays a big role, and with terraforming it will probably matter even more so.


(48 replies, posted in Balancing)

Bunkerkind Anni wrote:

and noone complains about the terraformer-bonus on harvester bots? right now thats the most useless bonus, because terraforming isnt implemented yet.

i see shield bonus on those mechs the same - they are not ready yet

I understand what you're saying, but I have to disagree. Terraforming is something we know very little about, and we most certainly can't test anything that relates to it. Terraforming is 100% not implemented yet.

Shields are halfways implemented, and we know a lot about them. We are able to test most aspects of how shields work. We know for certain that shield basically transform your AP in to an extra buffer, AP that thelodica bots really can't spare.

The only thing that can change this around is by making shields/shield equipped thelodica bots overpowered. The problem is that lasers (being the most AP intensive weapon) just don't mix very well with shields. Firing the lasers will kill your buffer, and using that buffer will kill your guns.

In the real world, one or the other is not sufficient. You need a balance of both to excel. Besides, lasers don't deal that much damage, so you can hardly say that it makes up for not having an applicable tanking bonus, when other bots do (em bots, I'm looking at you).


(11 replies, posted in Q & A)

Right, let me give you a little pointer: just because every man and his dog are doing something, doesn't mean that it's a good idea to do it.

Example: tribes used to throw virgins in to volcanoes in order to appease the gods.

Translation: there are many things on the market that don't have ANY sell orders. NPC or PC. If you wanna make NIC, start filling up the market with those things.


(48 replies, posted in Balancing)

Maynard Benaui wrote:

I am not talking about non-combat roles and situations.

1) As it was said before, there are planned weapons that lets you shoot through shields. That is where armor HP will most likely play big role.

Yes, but a bot that can tank but not shoot isn't helpful to any gang. See passive drake for reference. And that can shoot thanks to capless weapons. Still useless for a gang though.

Maynard Benaui wrote:

2) We can see new stats as minimal range on weapons. I don't know how this mechanics will work but it will eventualy replace tracking mechanics, here is where shields might come handy - raise your shields and rush to your opponent while having accurate short ranged lasers fitted.

Yes, you can rush in, but then your ap is empty, and then what? And rushing in with long range weaponry was always a good tactic roll

Maynard Benaui wrote:

Those are just 2 possible uses of shields in junction with possible new content. I can think about some more but I can't say it will work like this nor I can say it won't.

Well, actually, I'd say you listed zero, as your tactic falls on it's face when the bots run out of ap.

Maynard Benaui wrote:

Messing with bonuses and balance overall does not seem to me to make any good now.

Something has to be done, and sooner is always better than later. If other bots can have bonuses that complement the playstyle and overall tactics of the bot, then the thelodica ones should be the same.

Maynard Benaui wrote:

EDIT: Discussion about tanking abilities - shield or armor might be worthy, but then again, we would need to know devs opinion first.

No need for that. I already told you, I have an alt with more than 20k ep dedicated to shields, and it can't even tank a single light robot npc in a bot with bonuses to shield. That makes shields useless to bots which rely heavily on AP for their guns.

Siddy wrote:


They also have less range.


(48 replies, posted in Balancing)

Maynard Benaui wrote:

That is why you have extra armor.

I think about it like this:
High armor buffer, shield for specific situations and roles, accu injector for your accu issues.

Just wait for more content to come...

The problem with that is that other mechs have bonuses that complement each other perfectly. The thelodica ones have bonuses that work against each other. If you want to balance the game, then either change the thelodica mechs, or change all the other mechs so that no mechs have bonuses that work in harmony.

Imo, it's better/easier to give the thelodica mechs a boost rather then nerfing all the other mechs.

And as to specific situations, there's a limit to how much you want to specialize a combat bot on a non-combat role. You'll want spank and tank regardless. In every game, tank and spank classes/ships/vehicles are always the most popular, and for good reasons. Without dps, you can't kill anything. Without tank, you wont live long enough to kill anything.

Besides, shields totally blow atm. On my alt I've put almost all the ep in to shield and accumulator extensions, and my alt can't even tank a single npc with a shield hardener equipped. And that's with a sequer (which has a shield bonus). Never mind what players would do to it.


(17 replies, posted in Open discussion)

DEV Zoom wrote:

depends... are you a girl? big_smile

Well, I hate to break it to you, but: GIRL = Guy In Real Life


(10 replies, posted in Feature discussion and requests)

This has already been discussed here: http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … cavenging/

As far as my opinion goes: so you want to allow people to not only steal your loot, but kill your bot as well? If you shoot an older player in a bigger/better bot, you'll get an agression flag, and now they can shoot back.

Do you really think this will improve the situation? I have a feelilng you'll be dissapointed.

I think my biggest issue here, is the fact that turret bots get a slot that they can only fit a missile launcher on. That just seems silly to me. Especially since missile bots get to fit other stuff in their extra slot.

A missile only slot has no utility, where as a utility slot has, well, utility. I think that's the biggest imbalance here. One bot gets a choice, the others get dps (a tiny little bit, which also cost more EP to train for) or nothing. Feels unbalanced to me.

I know energy drainers also require EP, but judging from that other game, I really feel that energy drainers/neuts are far more useful than a little bit more dps.

RiceIord wrote:

Let's assume the price of 1 Titanium is 1 NIC, I'll go to the Daoden Beta Terminal, put one up for sale for 10 billions and buy it off myself. There goes your average.

Can be repeated endlessly, even without tax loss after some EP spending.

Yes, you can repeat it endlessly. The problem occurs when I notice what you're doing, and I put up an order for 9.9 billion. Now when your alt attempts to buy your titanium @ 10 bil, you'll end up buying my titanium for 9.9 bil. This way I get 9.9 bil, and you get some very overpriced titanium.

There are more ways to pvp than pew pew fyi.

Edit: soz, my bad. Couldn't quote the normal way because my browser @ work is fail.

RiceIord wrote:

Market value from where? The region the mech died in? I'd just put up some dozens of minerals for a few hundred millions on the market then, and, if the system would require that, buy them on my alt.
Then it'd be payday for me, off we go with a 100k mech that gets a 100m insurance payout.

If you consider the average of all markets in the game, the calculation is going to end up VERY distorted as mechs in outer regions will cost a lot more.

Market value as in average of the entire market, and market value is not based on listed sell pices. Market value is based on the average price the goods where actually sold/bought at. So you'd have a very difficult time manipulating the price. Sure, you could buy a huge quantity of minerals, list them at an inflated price and then buy them with an alt repeat a few times, but that only works until somebody figures out what you're doing, and then they'll take you to the cleaners by listing minerals at a slightly lower but still massively inflated price.

RiceIord wrote:

Nobody insures anything against something that WILL definitely happen. There are insurances against tornados, theft, water damage in houses and apartments, car insurances, but none of those things are CERTAIN to happen. Infact they're unlikely enough to make the business profitable for the insurance.

Allthough I never mentioned player run insurance, I believe Fumen gave a good answer to this.


(22 replies, posted in Balancing)

Fumen wrote:
Bambi wrote:

I think he wanted to say "accumulator" and mistyped cpu ^^

Thank you smile Yes, meant accumulator.

So a skill that lowers ap usage for turrets. Something like 3% per level I guess. Works for me.

Scrap Ferret wrote:

Contract system. Better, worse idea? Just copying eve?

-1 Contracts aren't needed.

What I would rather see, is more functionality to the market tool. So that you can put up buy/sell orders that only the person/group you specify can see it. This would have many uses. For instance, a corp could put up buy orders for raw materials that members have harvested, and you could put up a private sell order, much like a contract, but strickly  through the market tool.

If you wanna know why I'm against contract, I'll tell you why. It's not because it's too much like copying that other game, but it's because  of what contracts have turned in to in that other game. If you're wondering what I mean, do a search for a Navy raven. You'll find that 50% of the posted contracts aren't doing much more than hogging resources and slowing the entire contract market browser down.

The devs of that other game have stated on several occasions that the contracts system is putting an intense load on the server (market and contracts run on their own servers). I don't really feel contracts is such a great feature that it warrants investing in that much harware for it.

Besides, it's easier if everything that involves trade is kept to one interface.


(104 replies, posted in Balancing)

Black Punisher wrote:

didnt u notice that only few ppl  complain abot lazorz? Our corpmate on assault lazerbot farms 3star, 4star arbalests with no problem, more, he farms mechs. etc.
maybe the problem is in u, not in lazorz?

No, I think you've missed the point. Try doing it in a bot that uses EM guns, and you'll notice that one does it much better than the other. That's the issue here. Not if you CAN do it or not.

Sinister wrote:

Maybe I just got confused, but I thought I heard that a missile mech can fit 4 launchers and 2 energy drains, but a turret mech cannot fit any energy drains atall if he fits 4 turrets. Definetly not balanced if that's the way it is. Turret mechs should be able to potentially fit 4 turrets and 2 energy drains also.

The point is, the hard points are grouped on slots. So missile hard point are usually not grouped, where as the turret hardpoints are almost always grouped. For this reason turret bots have less utility.

But yes, utility slots ought to be independant, as in a missile slot should not be limited to missiles.

Roastduck wrote:

A proposal:
Insurance is not payed if the bot is destroyed by a police tower or a corp mate/squad member

This has already been confirmed by a dev. No need to vote on it. I personally think it's perfectly reasonable. If it was the other way around, it would improve insurance scam profitability.

Fumen wrote:

Could you please post some hard data as to why you believe this will cause inflation?

Allow me. In that other game, ships are usually not sold below a vertain threshold. This is due to the fact that it becomes more profitable to pop said ship after it's been insured.

Now, you're right in saying that it won't cause rampant inflation, but it will have an effect on the bot market as well as the raw materials market. In other words, it'll prevent bot prices from being truly player controlled, as well as raw material prices.

So no, it won't excactly cause inflation, but it will prevent deflation, thus ensuring that the entry barrier for new players is always kept at the same level or higher.

Some interesting thoughts there. You are right of course, as that other game has a huge problem with insurance atm. On the one hand, it makes sure minerals don't drop below a certain threshold, but on the other hand, it artificially keeps the prices of ships higher than they pontentially could be worth.

I think one way of doing it is basing insurance payouts on actual market value of the materials used in the bot production. I read a post by Zoom which hinted at there being no insurance for suicide ganks. This in it self will reduce insurance scam potential of course.

I like your idea though, but as you say, it would need some tweaking. But unlimited insurance just means that there are no real losses, which is bad imo. I still think the payouts should be dymanic though, to prevent insurance from interfering with market values.

First of all, this is the wrong section. This should be posted in the balancing section.

Now, since I've already hit the reply button, I'll do a reply as well.

I agree with some of your points. Shields on the bots that use the most acumulator in the first place seems like a wasted bonus. By the time you're ready to use the shield to get away, your accumulator will be near dry anyways.

Range, yes indeed. Allthough not all EM bots have an optimal bonus, it still seems to pop the balloon for laser bots if they're outranged by bots that do more damage. I'm not sure an optimal bonus for laser bots would fix it though, as the laser bots don't have enough targeting range to make use of it.

The Baphomet has a max accumulator bonus, which seems more in line with lasers in general. Both the mech and heavy mech have that shield bonus, which seems useless. Tracking isn't working atm, but I can imagine once the dev's implement something new (head a dev stating they were working on something to replace tracking, as tracking was broken as it was), they tracking bonus will most likely prove quite useful.

All in all, yes, laser bots need some help.

Overwriting all the game files appears to have solved the problem.

Conq wrote:

I look forward to non-standard resources in pvp zones, and many for that matter, scattered outside of police zones to support the community driven nature of the game.

Thanks zoom. 

I cant tell ya how boring it is for me to plop right out of docking to the floor, scan for titanium. . .bingo...got it...turn on tv program...return in 15 minutes. . .unload and load up HDT charges. . .port out of docking to the surface. . .scan for HDT at the base without moving for the most part, mine HDT, watch tv for another 15 minutes...pop back into the docking station. . .fit myself with a Harvester. . .port back down to the surface. . .and move 10 meters to harvest Helio. . .harvest it for 15minutes...and make some missiles.

That had to be the most unfulfilling experience I've had, and yes, I expect to be interfered with by other players for less common resources in pvp zones.  Hopefully the loot table distributes more resources that will never be under the protection of the npc police more than less.  I can only hope that players will play a main influential role in this game.  I should expect to have a harvesting party with some members being in Assault Robots to protect me from other players.

Sorry, but how excactly will it become more interesting if you have to sit still for 15minutes and worry about getting shot at, at wich point you probably lose your bot anyways? You still have to sit still for 15minutes, and even if you have some friends to preotect you, there is no mechanic that forces people to shoot your friends.

Easy way to make your life miserable: get a bunch of cheap bots, get some friends. Specifically target the mining bots (which are weaker and have less armour), mining bots go poof, mining op is disrupted. Victory!

I think you'll only find it frustrating to mine in pvp zones. In fact, if it's so boring and you crave excitement, then what's stopping you from going there to do some mining right now? Or do you need to be forced there?

Just because you need to be forced, doesn't mean that every one else should have to suffer because you can't act without being forced.

Cik wrote:

Yes, the current environment is already leaning toward game-breaking, without players being part of the challenge, the risk, actually, well, playing a central command, gain, and loss and overall influential role in what should be a player-driven ecosystem, but it is only beta. 

You get rewards without challenges everywhere and about for everything, for the most part, because the resource table is under an umbrella of safety everywhere. I thought this fault was already established in the thread, but there it is for reinforcement.  Again, there is no challenge for an industrial person, such as myself to find game-play value in an environment vastly covered by zap towers, where the resource table is protected and coddled like a child from any unexpected interference or challenge, where I can hit a mine button, watch a movie, and come back with a store or stuff, and immediately port into a docking station.   , for the most part, which was established.  The vast majority of the game environment is safe. Mobs don’t roam.

Afaik the npc's are being worked on, and as Zoom just posted, the resources will be redeployed at some point.

Cik wrote:

There needs to be a balance, and I believe I eluded to that.  However, there is a toppling over in the wrong direction when balance is pushed aside, as in this case.  So let me translate, this game is an arcade pve-centric, single-player-esque model that might be heavy on the calories, but falls short on lasting nutrition.  Any indie project can be successful, but carebears and pirates alike are gonna come and go when they realize their entertainment value is as shallow as piloting a mech for resource gather or combat against tethered mobs by virture of nothing more entertaining than pushing a button and sitting behind a screen, watching EP rise every 60 seconds.

Well, what you're talking about still doesn't require resources to be deployed in pvp hotzones. A better idea would be to have resource gathering require irl skill, like a mini game of some sort.

Cik wrote:

Firstly, dont mis-quote what is already printed above.  No one supports all the resources in pvp areas only; but again, there needs balance of the resource table so that unique and some types of resources are outside of our police patrolled areas for the manufacture of non-standard items, I think. Secondly, ‘that other game’ that your so shy in mentioning is hugely successful for a reason.  It is a well balanced sandboxy game with great depth and breadth of a player-driven ecosystem, as well as game-play mechanics; it’s done as properly as most sandboxy games are.

Firstly, read my whole post before accusing me of misquoting. I read the whole thread, and I responded to your post. You are keen on the idea of having some resources only appearing in pvp enabled areas. This is what I'm against. Secondly, that other game, is not that successful. 300k active subs in 7 years. That doesn't spell hugely successful in my book. Rich gameworld? Do you mean the ovecrowded protected zones, or do you mean the unsafe areas where you can travel 20+ jumps without bumping in to a single player?

And let me remind you: in the early days it took a player weeks to obtain enough wealth to buy anything beyond the smallest ship. This was because the only way to obtain the resources to build any ships at all, was to harvest them in the unsafe areas. The makers obviously scrapped that idea. I wonder why...

Cik wrote:

This is not your game, and we are beta testers, all contributing, so, heh, get over it I guess.  You should familiarize yourself with the game-play and resource gathering a bit more before assuming that the vast majority of the resources can’t be farmed solo while afk, and as another reinforcement, the vast majority of them within the warm embrace of the mothering pve police force.  So, please feel free to list all the resources, their locations, and those that are only attainable outside the zap towers.

Dude. I just told you it's not your game, and you presume to tell me the same thing? roll Why would I want to list all the resources and their locations? And I've already explained to you how playing solo is less profitable, even in the safe areas.

Cik wrote:

I get the sense that your looking for a single-player, arcade-style, easy-mode, non-player-driven game to jump to; its nothing to be ashamed of, but it’s not the interest of mine to play a sims game.  That’s just me.  Again, if you haven’t read the whole thread, then you should.  Actually, this thread has evolved, and I’ll probably start another topic for focus, as this one was supposed to be dedicated to the high prevalence of police towers.  Now about production and resource gathering, the fastest thriving corporations will have several players split among extension trees to be most efficient and productive at production.  And those more successful corporations should have a military arm to defend their resource gatherers (hence player-driven and cooperative), but it certainly isnt necessary in the least.  And, I do harvest, which is why I am weary about the elementary, G-Rated state of the environment.  But again, this is beta, and we’re all contributors.

What makes you think I want a solo game? What makes yo uthink I want easy mode? I want to prevent other players from having the ability to create their easy mode by monopolizing resources. However, regardless of what you or I want, a sandbox should have room enough to accomodate solo players, not just team players. In a sandbox, no one should be able to dictate how anyone else plays the game, or achieves their goals.

There is only sand, how you shape it, or what you shape it in to, is down to the individual. If you're not sure what to do with it, you can always follow somebody else's vision. If you do know what you want, then I don't see any reason why one should need to force ones vision on to others in order to achieve success. That's only to make it easier.

Cik wrote:

You should get better rewards when you’re involved in a squad (team), as opposed to solo-play; that’s an appealing concept, but one that I don’t think is quite implemented yet.

Well, even if you mine in a safe place, you still get better rewards if you bring a friend to haul for you. Besides, there are npc's to worry about. As far as I'm concerned, that was excactly the problem in that other game: the player were the risk, but the players made the risk too high, and upping the rewards would be game breaking.

Cik wrote:

In a sandbox, you are given a world with some minimal predefined rulesets (minimal pre-defined rulesets) and you make your own game in it. Like a childs sandbox, which is just a box of sand, the actual game comes from the childs imagination and doesn’t have a set objective.

Now, allow me to finish that analogy for you. If there aren't any grown-ups around to make sure the kids play nice, then the big bullies eventually manage to chase all the other kids away, before eventually leaving the sandbox because there isn't any smaller kids for them to bully anymore. Translate to game -> carebears leave, nothing gets harvested, pirates/griefers have no one to shoot, game over.

Cik wrote:

Again, the Police Towers are a necessary rulset in various situations, and that’s inarguable, but is also akin to a supportive single-player safety net when very prevalent, and when lets say 90% of the game-play resources are under that umbrella, completely free from environmental (mob and player) influence.

If you put all the resources in a specific area, or type of area (I.E: pvp area), that creates a huge problem with monopoly. This already happened in that other game. Some few alliances controlled the vast majority of a cerain resource, which could no be obtained anywhere else, and it's affecting the entire economy. In fact, those alliaces are so rich that no-one can remove them, as making their stuff go poof has no effect, they'll just buy more stuff for you to blow up.

Cik wrote:

Most, the vast majority of harvestables being attainable within that safety net offers no game-play value to me, no value to that resource, the time taken to harvest it, or varying degrees of resource value to production; I’m handed everything on a platter essentially, and the only challenge is the timing of when that resource re-pops after being depleted.  So all the harvestables are necessary for production, but nothing, for the most part is uniquely challenging to attain, or requires a squad or teamwork to achieve.  That’s as opposed to cooperation with another player to achieve something.

If you feel it ruins your game, then I need to remind you: this is not your game. Again, just because a resource is located in a pvp area does not mean it can't be harvested solo. Just because a resource is located in a non-pvp area, does not mean it has to, or even can be harvested solo.

Have you tried to harvest all the materials needed to make a mech solo? If you had, I don't think you'd be saying it requires no effort. In fact, I don't think you have any intention what so ever to harvest anything at all in this game. I think you just want to make sure there are plenty of soft easy targets that you can raketeer for cash.

The people who actually do the harvesting however, don't feel that great about it. There has to be at least a limited amount of every resource available in "safe" places. Otherwise players can monopolize resources, and that's extremely bad for the economy. Besides, you can still get more of said resources on the less safe areas, and there will be less competition for said resources in said "unsafe" zones. Thus, the rewards will be greater.

The buttons don't highlight when hoovering the mouse over them, and nothing happens when I click them. This only happens on one client, and it appears to only happen when I'm running two clients simultaniously. I can still move the window around by clicking and draging, and I can minimize it etc.

When I close window and reopen it works again until I click something else and click a button. After that, it appears to freeze again. I can still target using double click. If I close it and open it, I can manage to target a few things before it stops working again.

If I close/open it without targeting anything, it appears to work until I use one of the buttons again.

I've not tried overwriting all the files in the folder for the client affected (I have two folders with perpetuum on my computer for dual boxing), but I'll try that later to see if it's just a corrupted file.

Um, about your 4th point. You're right, but you're wrong lol

It's actually the other way around. Seismic weapons do kinetic damage. The same goes for the plates to some extent. The ammos aren't doing the right damage types, hence it appears as if they aren't working.

Just saying...