Topic: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

They are really hampering the 'free market'. I know you want these bots out there, but you're really hurting the industrialists trying to move out onto the market and causing the mineral market to be out of touch. All the current npc prices are totally messed up and they set pre-conceived expectations as to module and bot pricing, which is just a form of regulation. It is also taking a LOT of nic out of the game in an already fragile to near non-existent market.

If you're worried about ammo problems, make the 'noob' guns take no ammo so that even if no ammo is on the market things can be killed with the lowliest of guns and money can be made selling the kernals/recycling loot.

Also, noob bots need to drop a kernal 100% of the time. It currently takes aprox. 9.36 hours of straight noob bot killing to have enough to buy the next tier combat bot.

I think unless these two things change the player industrial market just can't even get 'started' let alone stable.

Last edited by Hilaridi (2010-01-22 04:18:52)

Re: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

I believe this is necessary, but one other step must be taken first. Otherwise other things will go out of balance.

Average market prices can not rise because they are already too high compared to the speed at which new players can make money. Based on newer players opinions which I hear in help chat all day, players will be driven away from the game quickly.

Before removing npc orders, decimal point values must be added. Many unrefined materials have values less then that of 1NIC. Allowing values of less then one NIC will stabilize prices, allowing npc orders to be removed.

Re: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

Scrap Ferret wrote:

Before removing npc orders, decimal point values must be added. Many unrefined materials have values less then that of 1NIC. Allowing values of less then one NIC will stabilize prices, allowing npc orders to be removed.

Yes, I forgot to add this in my OP. Thank you smile

Re: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

Not having a market wont' drive players away as long as they can particpate as industrials themselves.

Currently the issue is time. It takes a long time to upgrade to the light bot, which means you are either mining or ratting in the noob bot, and you really aren't able to produce the "needs" of the market. If you want experiment with how successfully the free market can be, lower the prices of all patents, and increase the speed at which miners mine. The market will fill itself out. And once it achieves some stability you can slowly lower the rate of miners to increase time to product for industrials.

By doing this 1 pilot can becomes the value of 10 or 20 miners, and thus can support producing market items that he could not of in the past, obviously this wouldn't be permanent, but with a population as low as it is, rather then just seeding increase the productivity of the players who exist and the items will be seeded by the players.

If you also do not have any npc sell orders, players will not have any pre-conceptions of cost, and the prices will stabalize based on supply and demand. What is likely to happen of course, is with 1 player being able to mine at the rate of 10 or 20 you'll have way more supply then demand and prices will be extremely low. At which point you can reduce the productivity of miners, or you can reduce the value of Kernels and increase the cost of Reverse Engineering and Prototyping (hopefully that will be done by this time tongue ).

Re: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

I dont think the npc bots need to be removed at all. I think there should just be things taken off. Things like minerals should be removed for sure. Really, the main thing that should be on npc vendors is ammo. Other than that no much else should be there. The issue thats happening now is that there are not nearly enough people to fulfill player ran economy. After more people are in and crafting then you can remove more and more things. Eventually you can remove all things from the npc sellers. One thing I do think should stay is the npc buyers. This is one thing that allows new players to sell off loot and other materials they may have gotten.

Re: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

Right, let me give you a little pointer: just because every man and his dog are doing something, doesn't mean that it's a good idea to do it.

Example: tribes used to throw virgins in to volcanoes in order to appease the gods.

Translation: there are many things on the market that don't have ANY sell orders. NPC or PC. If you wanna make NIC, start filling up the market with those things.

Re: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

I think it's safe to say that, for now, this experiment was tried and failed miserably.

Re: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

In my opinino due to really low player presence online ...
Was quite hard to have more than 10 ppl on help channel at a time for example.
The test certainly happened in the worst period.

Ideal, maybe, could be a system where npc orders appear (for sell or buy orders) if no player order exists in market for given product.
Maybe, also, it could happen if prices are getting really too low (see the mats at 1 or 2 nics orders during this period??)

Re: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

In the beginning or beta of such a Game you simply need them.
Just be 1 NIC cheaper and it will get sold ;P.
So I do not see any issue here.
Oh and nobody will get into mass production atm since buying new patents is senseless with the minor change of industry stepping towrds us.. so the question should rather be like:
When do we get the industry-patch?
regards

Last edited by Choke (2010-02-07 13:07:06)

Re: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

As long as the NPC orders have huge differences in buying and selling, marking up things selling and marking down the value of anything bought any industrialist should make a profit, or find a nich.

IE, one mech has a infinate buy order of 100k and sell at 400k, if someone can make and sell it for profit at 300k (with costs of minerals) then that would be good.

If the olny person selling something like EM gun is NPC, you can undercut them by a few and still make more of a profit then if you sold the gun yourself to a npc.

As long as NPC's are poorly compeditive then it opens the opertunaty to have players join in.

Re: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

Besides, if you remove all sell orders you won't have a ceiling and then you'd either end up killing the market or having inflation spiral out of control. Removing some would work, but the most basic cornerstones in industry would have to be present to ground the NIC in a comparable value.

I flunked economics, twice, so consider me your go-to guy on market advice.

Last edited by Donnerberg (2010-04-13 11:17:41)

Re: Remove (almost all) NPC sell orders, please?

Donnerberg wrote:

Besides, if you remove all sell orders you won't have a ceiling and then you'd either end up killing the market or having inflation spiral out of control. Removing some would work, but the most basic cornerstones in industry would have to be present to ground the NIC in a comparable value.

I flunked economics, twice, so consider me your go-to guy on market advice.

Kernel buy orders would stay, like they did the last time the market got unseeded.