Topic: PvP Flaging

It looks like the DEVs have a good fix for the Flagging problem.
But the the DEVs are focusing on missions first understandably.

The fix is called "PvP Flags".  This is where agents purposely flag themselves in a special status, "PvP Flagged".  Anyone who shoots a PvP Flagged person are themselves PvP Flagged.

PvP Flagged people can not enter bases.  However, they can enter policed safe zones and not be targetted by the police towers.

This is a good idea but what I would like to see is also pure PvP islands were you are automatically flagged as PvP thus the need for Police towers is moot on these islands, or at least there should be 'lakes' of PvP areas where entering them you are automatically flagged as PvP. These areas could be extra rich in resources thus Corperations will fight to control these areas and defend future minig structures the Dev's plan to bring into the game along with teraforming.
Just my nickles worth on the  up coming fix for the flagging issue wich can inhibit good mass PvP as well as invassion tactics. -V tongue

Re: PvP Flaging

Well the pvp flags are nice and all. However most of the players won't use it I'd imagine. Easier ways to pvp.

Also we already have permanent insta-flagged islands. They are called the pvp islands, and for at least 2 of them, the only police tower on the entire island, is at the base. (The positions of the teleporters were changed, and the devs forgot to move the towers to the new locations.)

Last edited by Blackomen (2010-01-29 15:20:40)

Re: PvP Flaging

Well i think i never saw any bug report about the police towers missing on pvp islands teleport ... can someone else confirm?
Are devs aware?

Re: PvP Flaging

its not a bug, its just ***/neglect

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Re: PvP Flaging

The current set up for PvP doesn't really allow true mass PvP as in the Enigma/BWC opperations against SoT proved. The person firing on another, yes even on the PvP islands, becomes flagged then all opponents can attack that flagged individual with out getting flagged themselves thus if the heat gets too hot they can jump back in base or hug a police tower.
If true PvP is to happen then once the shooting starts every one involved should be flagged regardless of who fired the first shot.
Some might say 'hey I am minding my own business so I should not get flagged if some one fires on me" well if you are in a Syndicate protected zone then you have no worries; a police tower will pop the agresser but if you are out minding your own business in uncontroled area then you should be prepared to have an interesting time. PvP areas are just that and should not allow for station games or stare offs of who wants to get flagged first.
Let's allow true corprate and gang warfare to happen. I used to abhore PvP because most of the time it was just gankfests on the noob or greifing in MMO's with ;ahm do I dare say it roll yes elves; but when I played Warhammer on line and EVE I actually liked PvP because there were other aspects of it, Realm Wars and Corprate Wars respectively. To me that is what is fun in PvP working with a squad against another squad using tactics as well as equipment to fight for the piece or rock you are wanting.
This game has a great potetial in the PvP realm meshing EVE corp warfare and actual squadbased ground combat tactics.
There will be a time in the future of the Perp that Corps will be fighting over resource spots and having to use multiple squads to seige another Corps camp who has dug in with defensive capability. I hope at least. wink
Well that's just my nickles worth and I know that we all view PvP different, I even view the market place as an arena for PvP but again that is just me. tongue -V

Re: PvP Flaging

This could be solved by allowing corps standings.
If a corp declare war against another one, all players from the 2 corps will be permanently pvp flagged on both side, and syndicate wont interact (as it actually does with players from the same corp)

We could also imagine that two corps can also set friendly standings, then totally disabling pvp between their members.

Re: PvP Flaging

and then all who stays in NPC corps are nigh untoucable

EVE all over again.

Last edited by Siddy (2010-01-30 11:45:14)

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Re: PvP Flaging

Why are they untouchable?
Why couldnt player run corps enter war against the npc ones??

And sorry, i never played eve ... so this was a true suggestion, not even something taken from this "other spacial mmo" most of you use to refer to ^^

Re: PvP Flaging

Good suggestion Bambi, and I like the posibility of Corps declaring War against the NPC corps. This would allow yarr with a bit more realism.
Generally in history on country would give free merchants papers to engage the enemy of there enemies thus they had a fighting force which they did not have to maintain on the high seas. Of course the other country would declare such free merchants pirots and hang them as such. True piracy in history is not the glorious portrial that movies and games give it. It was a hard exsistance and the Pirots had to have some where to pull into port in the "civilized world."
Now this lead me onto this thought which is build of of Bambi's suggestion. Why not hae some of the NPC Corps offer bounty on rival NPC's corps. This could be another area of PvP missions and allow for factional/realm warfare in the story line. As stated in some of the rewrite of the original story line the different NPC corps really do not want to share the resources but are at a kinda empass with each other.
With this stand off between the NPC Corps it allows for some good PvP missioning as well as perhaps giving Player Corps the ability to align them selves with NPC Corps through PvP missions.
Again helping to drive a larger scale PvP environment.

Re: PvP Flaging

Declaring war shouldnt be as easy as pushing a button.
I really have no good idea on "how" this could be managed, but i think we could involve some corp standings first.

Re: PvP Flaging

True as well as spending NIC to start it with an on going cost paid to the Syndicate. This is of course only in areas Protected and controled by the Syndicate.
With missions one as well as a Corp should be able to build standing with the NPC Corps but I would like to see that as you go up with one perhaps you take a bit of a hit with the other NPC corps.
Small scale skirmishes should still be able to be fought in unprotected areas as well as on the PvP islands with out the need to Declare War through the Syndicate. Thanks for the constructive input, maybe we can hash out a very stable PvP game which involves more than yarr , ganking, and griefing. I would like to see the Economy as a very intragral part of the PvP between Corps. -V

Last edited by Vintnor DiEisen (2010-01-31 00:10:32)

Re: PvP Flaging

Vintnor DiEisen wrote:

Good suggestion Bambi, and I like the posibility of Corps declaring War against the NPC corps. This would allow yarr with a bit more realism.

Yes please, so few targets to Yarr currently. Have to use clever exploits to get our daily yarrs these days.

Re: PvP Flaging

Blackomen wrote:
Vintnor DiEisen wrote:

Good suggestion Bambi, and I like the posibility of Corps declaring War against the NPC corps. This would allow yarr with a bit more realism.

Yes please, so few targets to Yarr currently. Have to use clever exploits to get our daily yarrs these days.

Allowing people to kill new players in npcs corps in the starter protected police zones, sounds like a really good idea - if you want less than 500 subscriptions.

Last edited by Sinister (2010-01-31 11:19:22)

Re: PvP Flaging

I missed that point Sinister wink
Yes really war against npc factions is a not-so-good idea big_smile

Re: PvP Flaging

Allowing people to kill new players in npcs corps in the starter protected police zones, sounds like a really good idea - if you want less than 500 subscriptions..

Yeah, as a new player who got ganked and lost his 1st light mech while 100m from a Police tower about 15 minutes after I bought it, I have to agree with this 100%.  When the death penalty is "all your stuff" for low level players, people aren't going to stick around if they aren't protected from gankers.

Last edited by Hallgrim (2010-03-28 20:33:43)

Re: PvP Flaging

Ok, PvP flagging has changed now:

1. you will get a PvP flag whenever you shoot or use Ewar on another player
2. you will get a police-Aggro flag if you shoot or use Ewar on another non-flagged player
3. you should not be able to dock while PvP flagged (its not decided yet)

Hallgrim - you have been the prey of suicide-bombers... without a negative-standing-mechanic there is no way to prevent this from happening.

Re: PvP Flaging

Hence a law mechanic is needed to help need the game from becoming a total FFA gankfest. Even the player who isn't looking for a fight will shoot first less become the victim.

But the removal of the law extension leads me to believe they arn't going to have a lawful/unlawful system atall.

Last edited by Sinister (2010-03-29 01:15:28)

Re: PvP Flaging

its not exactly a FFA gankfest the amount of mechs required to suicide a single target is very very expensive. Even with 5-6 mechs an assault bot with a plate can sometimes survive depending on the racial resists. thats 20-25m just in bots down on a wasted run. and even if they succeed the value of what was needed to destroy a target will never ever be less then the value of the target itself. making it a loss only prospect.

Re: PvP Flaging

Nick Fury wrote:

its not exactly a FFA gankfest the amount of mechs required to suicide a single target is very very expensive. Even with 5-6 mechs an assault bot with a plate can sometimes survive depending on the racial resists. thats 20-25m just in bots down on a wasted run. and even if they succeed the value of what was needed to destroy a target will never ever be less then the value of the target itself. making it a loss only prospect.

25m to them vs. EVERYTHING for me.  Sure my everything may not be a lot (I only got the game today, played 2-3 hours), but its still all I have.

Make getting killed by the police cost a fine based on your accumulated skill points or whatever they are called (nooblet), and at least they'll have to pay something proportional to what they're costing us noobs.

Edit:  While playing today, I saw someone in chat talk about this exact thing (getting pk'd in a safe zone) happening to them with their new mech.   Its obviously not all that uncommon, so the cost can't be that prohibitive.

Last edited by Hallgrim (2010-03-30 00:01:58)

Re: PvP Flaging

the only reason people gankk stuff in here is cause its beta and ther is nothing to do. People (M2S?) are bored out of they skulls.

We dont like the idea of grinding some smelly npc all day long...

Come fight us, hell, we even pay for your ***, if you atleast try...

Last edited by Siddy (2010-03-30 14:18:28)

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Re: PvP Flaging

Siddy wrote:

the only reason people gankk stuff in here is cause its beta and ther is nothing to do. People (M2S?) are bored out of they skulls.

We dont like the idea of grinding some smelly npc all day long...

Come fight us, hell, we even pay for your ***, if you atleast try...

Moral arguments aside, do you really think that people won't do this after the game is released if the system is the same?  Nobody will ever get bored of smelly npcs and decide to grief new players in the future?

Re: PvP Flaging

OFCORSE THEY WILL


I WILL BE BLOWING UP ANYTHING I CAN CATCH FROM THE DAY 1

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Rawr, fear my signature.

Re: PvP Flaging

Hallgrim wrote:
Siddy wrote:

the only reason people gankk stuff in here is cause its beta and ther is nothing to do. People (M2S?) are bored out of they skulls.

We dont like the idea of grinding some smelly npc all day long...

Come fight us, hell, we even pay for your ***, if you atleast try...

Moral arguments aside, do you really think that people won't do this after the game is released if the system is the same?  Nobody will ever get bored of smelly npcs and decide to grief new players in the future?

I know Siddy tends to talk/type first and think later, but I didn't see him trying to convey that point. As pirates we will of course always prefer killing a player over killing a mindless npc. However at the moment, with truly nothing else for us to do (Keep in mind we have every bot in the game, insane quantities of NIC, have most of the tech tree finished, and are currently reverse engineering all the best named equipment in the game.) we are pretty much either looking for targets, training new members, bug hunting, or not playing at all.

To sum that up, we're starved for any means to kill somebody atm, more so than usual. I suppose one up side to the current predicament, is that we're working "really" hard to find a exploit to the current no-shooting on pve islands, and believe me, when (and we always do) we find that loophole, everyone is going to know it. Starting with the first person we see in a heavy mech. (Stares like Hannibal Lecter at Indy's Mesmer)

[img]http://larryfire.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/hannibal_lecter20copy.jpg[/img]

Edit: Picture added for more of a vivid perspective.

Last edited by Blackomen (2010-04-01 05:24:47)

Re: PvP Flaging

you missed our squads heavy mech yesterday by 10minutes wink

Re: PvP Flaging

If all the people who want to fight are starved for targets would it not make sense to Red/Blue the PvP areas? That or wait a week until I get things figured out and have a few bots to lose then the lot of you can gank me and feel special.