Topic: NIC sinks

The game is about to launch and there are STILL virtually no NIC sinks in the game... Anything planned prior or soon after release?

Re: NIC sinks

you can donate them to me, ill find a way to sink them

Grow up or die

Re: NIC sinks

Insurance? Mech/Module losses through PvP?

Re: NIC sinks

module losses isnt a nic sink as the money made to purcase the item is not lost from the game but ur wallet

Re: NIC sinks

These are the ones I can think of at the moment, if I've missed any please state them. I'm not sure how much impact they have on the overall money supply but this may help any further discussion. The sinks in green can be partially recovered if someone owns the outpost in which the operation was taken place.

Manufacturing costs.
Prototyping Costs.
Reverse Engineering Costs.
Repairing.

Anything bought from NPC seeds.
Storage fee.
Insurance fees.
Market VAT.
Market Listing fee.
Intrusion Registration  (Providing you don't successfully take the outpost).
Corporation registration.
Mission rewards.

Last edited by Styx (2010-11-13 17:59:08)

Re: NIC sinks

I would think ammunition/charges are a money sink as well? Also mobile teleporters and field containers.

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -- Bill Cosby

Re: NIC sinks

DEV Zoom wrote:

I would think ammunition/charges are a money sink as well? Also mobile teleporters and field containers.

Styx wrote:

Anything bought from NPC seeds.

Last edited by Styx (2010-11-13 17:31:55)

Re: NIC sinks

Yeah, but if you manufacture ammo that is still a nic sink in my eyes, since you throw them out basically by shooting each other smile

However you could argue that this falls under manufacturing costs if you mine all the minerals for it.

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -- Bill Cosby

Re: NIC sinks

DEV Zoom wrote:

Yeah, but if you manufacture ammo that is still a nic sink in my eyes, since you throw them out basically by shooting each other smile

However you could argue that this falls under manufacturing costs if you mine all the minerals for it.

You don't generate any NIC by manufacturing ammo. You can't argue (logically) that it falls under manufacturing costs (aside from the small amount of NIC required to start the production job) or is a NIC sink. That's just not how sinks and faucets work.

Last edited by Styx (2010-11-13 17:59:57)

Re: NIC sinks

Brontes wrote:

module losses isnt a nic sink as the money made to purcase the item is not lost from the game but ur wallet

I'm not very good at economic's stuff, can you explain the difference please (with simple words if possible, i'm not a native english speaker) ? Thanks.

Re: NIC sinks

Yelb wrote:
Brontes wrote:

module losses isnt a nic sink as the money made to purcase the item is not lost from the game but ur wallet

I'm not very good at economic's stuff, can you explain the difference please (with simple words if possible, i'm not a native english speaker) ? Thanks.

A sink is where NIC is removed from the game. This happens when you buy something that is NPC seeded since the money is removed and not transferred to another player. Other examples of this are transaction taxes, the money is removed since it doesn't go to another player.

Faucets are when NIC is generated out of thin air by the system such as when it gives you NIC for selling kernels to the NPC buy orders.

Re: NIC sinks

nvm I didn't see Market listing fees the first time I read the thread.

Last edited by Gremrod (2010-11-13 18:21:36)

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Re: NIC sinks

Thanks.

If i understand well, sink is important so inflation is not too high, and a 50 000 NIC robot the first month is not 5 000 000 six month later, right ?

Re: NIC sinks

DEV Zoom wrote:

Yeah, but if you manufacture ammo that is still a nic sink in my eyes, since you throw them out basically by shooting each other smile

However you could argue that this falls under manufacturing costs if you mine all the minerals for it.

The NIC you spent on ammo purchase isn't going away from the system.  They don't sink, they just change the owner.

I am lazy to run the numbers but you can make a picture based on a list that Styx made, and you can see that the only sink is production/market fees which represents very limited % of NIC you will actually generate in the process of Assignment rewards and Kernel NPC BUY orders.

Apart from fees talked above, you are left with fees for Intrusion and Corporation fees and NPC SELL orders are effectively non existent.


Currently, you can generate about +10M NIC/hour by solo farming, how much of that will that be in fees deduced in manufacturing in marketing process? Less than 3%?

Last edited by Maynard Benaui (2010-11-14 00:25:01)

Re: NIC sinks

Maynard Benaui wrote:

The NIC you spent on ammo purchase isn't going away from the system.  They don't sink, they just change the owner.

Unless your buying from NPC infinite sell orders. And I do have to actually agree, the game does need more sinks of some sort. But short of charging all residents an income tax, property tax, and making bots require fuel... I have no real practical ideas. sad

Re: NIC sinks

while as new player, its really hard to get enough money to start a living,
for those who can farm t4/5 mobs and produce everything for almost free it has no meaning.

Another NIC sink could be higher production costs for the high quality equipment. and i mean the NIC part of it, not the materials.

also, refining and recycling is for free atm...

Re: NIC sinks

Bunkerkind Anni wrote:

while as new player, its really hard to get enough money to start a living,
for those who can farm t4/5 mobs and produce everything for almost free it has no meaning.

Another NIC sink could be higher production costs for the high quality equipment. and i mean the NIC part of it, not the materials.

also, refining and recycling is for free atm...

I think the point of refining and recycling being free is that the terminal is taking a cut of the materials.  The player never sees that and just accepts that as the norm and as a result we dont really see a "cost" to performing these actions.  Maybe a NIC cost should be put in place in lieu of slightly higher output.  The cost could be lowered for larger batches of materials/items, so its in your best interest to process things in bulk if you can afford to.

If I were a heavy industry guy, I might think this is worth its own topic...

Re: NIC sinks

Neoxx wrote:

Maybe a NIC cost should be put in place in lieu of slightly higher output.  The cost could be lowered for larger batches of materials/items, so its in your best interest to process things in bulk if you can afford to.

Not exactly new player friendly.

Re: NIC sinks

They give you money.  When you start you will be processing small amounts and then selling.  My idea was to give the same net gain from the process, but for it to cost you NIC instead of resources.

This mirrors what we already have with PvE.

-Buying ammo / Buying charges
-Repairing loot / Recycling loot / Processing minerals

The cost to the miner would not be so high that they couldnt do anything when they start.  It would be tiered for costs so if they are really strapped for cash they would just have to do small batches at a time, sell them, then do more.



Oh yeah, I just thought of this.  If you dont have the cash to process it, just sell the raw ores.  No further cost than we currently have, the only difference being raw ores might drop in value slightly.  Derp.

Last edited by Neoxx (2010-11-14 02:31:35)

Re: NIC sinks

I would go with the future player built bases and terraforming as the first main money sink. Make that *** super expensive.  Let the big corps get hit with the money sinks, let the poor little guys keep their cash.  Tax the rich!

Re: NIC sinks

Fine by me.  I would be pissed as hell if terraforming were cheap.  Dont let every little f*cker draw smiley faces (or other objects) in the sand unless they pay out their asses to do so.

Re: NIC sinks

...or you could just replace Kernel orders with item orders and adjust the Assignment rewards as I was suggesting months ago.

Re: NIC sinks

Is it possible for devs to actually find out how much NIC was generated and sunk in given time period(30-90 days)?

Re: NIC sinks

We have discussed this previously and its related to the value of a rat bieng in it's kernel due to a few things. People tend to eat kernels. I've suggested that the mission container should have value via npc buy orders and the kernels should be based on Market value. A much needed boost to ratters income

Re: NIC sinks

Another possible NIC sink could be to charge for detailing work on your mechs. For example, you can give all of your mechs custom paintjobs but it would cost a fee and would get progressively more expensive the more detailed you go (i.e. emblems, symbols, etc.).

This could be done corp wide as well to display the corp emblem.