Topic: Don't like linked character EP

The fact that your account generates "x" number of EP for every character to share seems horrible to me.  If you want to do anything well you need to focus your skills on that one specific task.  Still not sure whether i want to do missles, lasers, or EM.  Maybe i want to have a miner char in my down time as well.  The single EP stash for your entire account makes everything i just discussed impossible.  From the start you need to pick a role you want to fill and stick with that one or be ineffective.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Thats the point.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

.....

Yes i understand that's the point.  That's why i wrote about it.  Just putting in my feedback.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

And what would you suggest?
EP per character instead of account? Then you'd also have to Limit character slots to two at maximum.

It's possible but if you want to make a mining character make one. The starting character is able to mine and you can get a feel for it. You don't have to spend any EP on a new character to get a feel for how they work. More in depth testing will require some EP to be spent but it's not enforced. What you're saying is you want the WoW style of being able to make one of everyone on an account and playing what you feel like. The game has three main areas. Military, Industry and Politics/Interaction.
This means you only need to create 1 character for each area and as the EP costs will be lower for specialised characters you spend less EP on each one.

The alternative is to get two or three accounts. This means that you don't need to share EP, can have multiple characters logged in at once and support the game by paying more. 1440 EP is more than enough to make a usable character. Any extension over level 5 is a luxury and not a requirement. You can be effective by choosing what you do very carefully.

A low extensions T4 fit robot vs a high extensions standard equipment fit robot has one massive difference. Time.


TL;DR: Works as intended. Specialise per character and have more than one. Be it multiple characters or multiple accounts. More Accounts > More Characters but More Characters can also work out but luxury extensions take longer to train.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

What is wrong with you people lol?  Is this not the "feature discussion and report" forum.  Trust me i completely understand how this system works.  I know it is a matter or time to generate more EP.  I understand creating a beginner character and giving him the basics will give you a "feel" for what its like, but you still wouldnt be able to use him to any effect.  I have no idea why you brought up the WOW thing as i dont even play that game.  If anything id be referring to Asherons Call were a had a few differant alts of differant weapon types.  Much like i might want to do here.  It would be frustrating after a year to realize the later model missle mechs just arent for me. 

This game is in beta right? Are we not supposed to give feedback on likes and dislikes?  You can stop "explaining" how it works....because i already get it, and that is what im commenting on.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Incarnyte wrote:

What is wrong with you people lol?  Is this not the "feature discussion and report" forum.  Trust me i completely understand how this system works.  I know it is a matter or time to generate more EP.  I understand creating a beginner character and giving him the basics will give you a "feel" for what its like, but you still wouldnt be able to use him to any effect.  I have no idea why you brought up the WOW thing as i dont even play that game.  If anything id be referring to Asherons Call were a had a few differant alts of differant weapon types.  Much like i might want to do here.  It would be frustrating after a year to realize the later model missle mechs just arent for me. 

This game is in beta right? Are we not supposed to give feedback on likes and dislikes?  You can stop "explaining" how it works....because i already get it, and that is what im commenting on.

First off, he's making sure you know the basics, as you are new here. This saves you some embarrassment down the road in case you didn't. Secondly, he is also giving his own opinion, opinions go both ways, and what you propose also causes major game breaking issues as well. Such as one man markets, or rather the lack of a market altogether. If everyone can manufacture and rat and mine. Then there is no socializing needed in game.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

I'm all for giving players varied experiences while playing. This game only supports specialists, hybrids are terrible at everything. I don't see how giving everyone 3 characters with full EP each is game breaking. There are plenty that will do multiple accounts to stay ahead of the pack, it's unfair to the single account players. I believe in competitive balance and this game is lacking in that area.
You shouldn't be able to do everything, but being able to do only one thing before playing for ~8 months seems rediculous.
Everyone playing the game should have a full combat specced agent. So the only way you have marketeers, researchers, recyclers or miners is to have multiple accounts.
While supporting the game with multiple accounts sounds good, it is basically micropayments to drastically make yourself better in game.
Everyone has the response of join a corp, but still the people in the corps are going to want to do more than one thing and will have multiple accounts.
The people paying $30 a month will flat out dominate the players paying $10 a month. After many years into the game, sure everyone can spec everything. In the getting there, the part I enjoy, you won't be able to.
At the very least make the alts on the account get some EP. Maybe the second alt gets 1/2, third alt gets 1/3, etc.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Already discussed here:
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … refund-ep/

No need for other thread.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Honestly, if someone secretly spent 20% of their EP on industry extensions, I bet nobody in their corp would even notice.

I think its a little melodramatic claiming that your agent will be absolutely gimp if a single point is spent in non combat extensions. I will definitely be taking sequer piloting at the minimum, and if I find myself with more NiC than I know what to do with, I will likely start eating kernals too. NOMNOMNOM

In every mmo I have played, there have been more than a few people I've met who do nothing but industry/trade because thats what they love doing. In perpetuum, these people can be great combat healers and even equip weapons! The other day, some guy in a Termis killed 3 combat agents.

Last edited by Vorgrim Scout (2010-11-07 12:39:28)

Re: Don't like linked character EP

lol my combat char has a bunch of 'offskill' extensions, that i use to enhance my gameplay experience, so its really isnt something that people need to worry about... on the otherhand if you want to go full on in to an area you arent sp[ec'd for well it makes sense to create that second char [and if you donty like waiting/spliting ep] that second account. 

its all about choice. but giving people 3 chars of full ep, is game breaking, because of whats been said. why would i need to sort out things with other people when i can from the start be making a full combat, full indy and a whatever else i feel like throwing together.i might be a crazy hardcore soloist but even i think thats a bad thing for the larger picture of social interacxtion needed in a game like this by the majority.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

I would love to have seen that termis battle. I did hear about it, but it's only rumor thus far. sad

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Blackomen wrote:

I would love to have seen that termis battle. I did hear about it, but it's only rumor thus far. sad

I was online and saw the 3 guys making excuses in general chat. It happened.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Really if you look at a lot of skills the gains are only marginal at best. Ya the total combat guy has two more skill points in something wow he does a whole 10% more damage, it's not big of a deal really eventually every just ends up a on a pretty level field. Yea the guy who has 2 more points points in everything combat is going to better than you but not by as much as you might think. I think its fine they way it is, my two cent.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

EP for every character:  You feel forced into using every character slot to make the most of your EP.

EP shared:  If you want to do multiple characters and develop them, you have to split your EP just like you have to split your time.  Think of it like leveling up 2 characters in more traditional MMO's at the same time.  You will eventually get both characters leveled up, but it just takes longer.

I would think that eventually creating a second character on an account isnt a bad idea.  But, I'd say not to do so for at least 4-6 months, at least for serious consideration of leveling that new toon on the same EP.  It really just depends how independent you want to be in the game.  If you're in a corp, specialize and help out corp mates where you're most valuable to find your best fit as a player.


Protip:  If you really want to do mining on the side or something, a basic alt will do mining if you want him to right out of the gate.  Maybe investing a month or so of EP into it will get you into the mech miner, and a bit more will help you get stable with all of your slots filled with mining lasers.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Was the Termis a closed beta guy with 250k+ EP and the other 3 guys from open beta? I could believe that and it shows that discrepancies in EP are that powerful.
I want a missile agent, sensor guy and a miner. That still leaves a lot of the game I wouldn't cover. I'm not paying for three accounts to do that.
All else being equal, the guy with 20% more EP spent on combat is going to win ~98% of the time.
When the game is 6-8 months along, sure you can spend some EP on other characters and not be gimped. If you start in the hole 2 months from not being in early release and messing up your first character, your going to be gimped for half a year.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

I'm sure there will be room for these apparently "gimped" characters in many corps. With numbers comes less pressure to be at the bleeding edge of character progression, and honestly, if Perpetuum takes off, no 10 man crew of super efficient 1337 dudes will be anything more than a nuisance to large corporations, beyond the first month or so.

I hope Perpetuum gets big enough that 1v1 viablility discussions are a sideshow, rather than a main feature.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

There's nothing wrong with making a character that can do everything.  really.  We are talking about speed, not power.  If you spread your attributes around and spec into different areas like mining and combat with one toon, you won't be gimped in any way shape or form. 

It will just take a little longer.  Its not hard at all to get the minimum levels of extensions to be effective.  If your worried about maxing all your skills at 10, for just one certain build, well, your looking at over a year, well over a year, minimum.  Thats with maxed attributes for that one aspect. 

there's no need to feel rushed.  Its going to be a long journey no matter how you approach it.  but what ever you decide to do, you will at some point reach it.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Lege wrote:

Was the Termis a closed beta guy with 250k+ EP and the other 3 guys from open beta? I could believe that and it shows that discrepancies in EP are that powerful.
I want a missile agent, sensor guy and a miner. That still leaves a lot of the game I wouldn't cover. I'm not paying for three accounts to do that.
All else being equal, the guy with 20% more EP spent on combat is going to win ~98% of the time.
When the game is 6-8 months along, sure you can spend some EP on other characters and not be gimped. If you start in the hole 2 months from not being in early release and messing up your first character, your going to be gimped for half a year.

You can be in the same mech as the guy with a two month head start.  But he won't be twice as strong.  If you start the game 5 years late, after two months you'll be around 20% weaker then the guys from open beta.  Each extension point is not a massive upgrade.  They are often as little as 3% a point.  If your at all 5's(a couple months), and another guy is at all 10's(years of ep) your looking at around 15-20% overall power as you both can be in the exact same Mech.  His mech will just preform a little better, but no where near the realm of insta killing you, and not so strong you can't hurt him. 

If your worried about 1v1 pvp, you don't understand mmorpg's.  If extremely easier in this type of a game to catch up then in gear grind based games.  As long as your smart enough to make the cash to afford expensive equipment your gonna be fine.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Neoxx wrote:

Protip:  If you really want to do mining on the side or something, a basic alt will do mining if you want him to right out of the gate.  Maybe investing a month or so of EP into it will get you into the mech miner, and a bit more will help you get stable with all of your slots filled with mining lasers.

why make an alt if your gonna mine with him right out of the gate?  Your main will have extensions that will help mining, and its not hard at all to get into a mining robot with bad mining attributes. 

You only need an alt for mining if your worried about take a little extra time to max him out.  Which would make you mine a little faster.  20% maybe?  Is it really worth all the extra head ache to finish mining a tile in 4 minutes instead of 5?  Is really such a death sentance to your character?

A month of EP to get into the miner?  I'm gonna go check the planner...(time passes)

LOL!! A fully specc'ed combat toon can get into a miner with 11 hours and 51 minutes of EP.

EDIT - oops, thats the first miner.  The mech miner will take 8 days, 16 hours, 7 minutes.  Still not a big deal at all.  7 of those days are for the miner, the rest you'll get anyways for any mech level robot. And again, thats a fully specc'ed combat toon. 

I just don't see how people freak out so much over this stuff.  People need to relax about the time involvement and just enjoy the ride.  Play how you want.

Last edited by Hadouken (2010-11-09 02:59:04)

Re: Don't like linked character EP

You make an alt because its free extensions instead of spending more EP on a combat character, plus it costs more because you dont have the attributes.

"A miner" I would imagine you mean an argano, I'm talking about a Termis with full mining lasers thats completely stable.  And I'm certainly not talking about maxing anything out.  And if you think that argano -> termis isnt a big deal, especially a stable one, you have something to learn about this game.  Yes, the planner is a nice tool, but its not the fount of all knowledge wink

Oh yeah, and you really have no idea what it takes to get the termis stable.  You also didnt take into account what you need to use the medium mining lasers, and all of the other modules needed.  Hm, what about rechargers, extenders, efficient mining, etc etc etc.  Try doing that on 8 days worth of EP.  Seriously.  Show me you can do that.

If you want to use those points on a combat character thats your own business, but I can assure you its better to make a miner alt with proper attributes to make the extensions cheaper.  Also, you can keep that character in a convenient location so you dont have to always cart your main anywhere you need to go.


No one is freaking out about this stuff.  I'm just trying to explain the best way to go about doing multiple characters with mutliple specializations with the smallest impact to your EP possible.

Last edited by Neoxx (2010-11-09 04:12:19)

Re: Don't like linked character EP

I would still put it on a combat or hybrid rather than 2 characters, because what happens when you eventually want resources from Beta or even new expansion islands? Your mining character with the bare minimum extensions to run stably is gonna be slow with low hps and no skill in weapons to defend itself.

If you plan to play on one account, it will be better to play one character in the long run.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Vorgrim Scout wrote:

I would still put it on a combat or hybrid rather than 2 characters, because what happens when you eventually want resources from Beta or even new expansion islands? Your mining character with the bare minimum extensions to run stably is gonna be slow with low hps and no skill in weapons to defend itself.

If you plan to play on one account, it will be better to play one character in the long run.

I'm taking into account the need for speed extensions as well.  Those are pretty cheap up to like lvl 7 or so.  Its easily cheaper than using your main with the points you saved from having proper attributes.

HP isnt really an issue.  If you get caught and start getting hit, that extra HP from extensions will RARELY save you in a Termis.

If you want to mine on beta, you should either find a remote spot you're likely not to be scouted, have a nearby combat group for backup, or know you can outrun your persuers to an exit point.  Using a combat character wont help you in that regard.

Oh yeah, and you could haul your combat character out there to re-log instantly onto that if you really need to fight off someone.

GG

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Neoxx wrote:

You make an alt because its free extensions instead of spending more EP on a combat character, plus it costs more because you dont have the attributes.

"A miner" I would imagine you mean an argano, I'm talking about a Termis with full mining lasers thats completely stable.  And I'm certainly not talking about maxing anything out.  And if you think that argano -> termis isnt a big deal, especially a stable one, you have something to learn about this game.  Yes, the planner is a nice tool, but its not the fount of all knowledge wink

Oh yeah, and you really have no idea what it takes to get the termis stable.  You also didnt take into account what you need to use the medium mining lasers, and all of the other modules needed.  Hm, what about rechargers, extenders, efficient mining, etc etc etc.  Try doing that on 8 days worth of EP.  Seriously.  Show me you can do that.

If you want to use those points on a combat character thats your own business, but I can assure you its better to make a miner alt with proper attributes to make the extensions cheaper.  Also, you can keep that character in a convenient location so you dont have to always cart your main anywhere you need to go.


No one is freaking out about this stuff.  I'm just trying to explain the best way to go about doing multiple characters with mutliple specializations with the smallest impact to your EP possible.

8 days for Termis. 11 hours for the argano.  Stable? Are the extensions to make it stable also the same extensions used by making any robot stable? Everyone wants a stable mech, but if what it takes to make a robot stable will also help your other builds I don't see that as much of a problem as you'll be getting those no matter what path you go down.  But would making it stable really add on an extra 3 weeks?

I didn't mean to implie that you were freaking out, I was just refering to several posts i've seen by people that talk about how its impossible to catch up.

I agree that 2 characters is faster.  And again, my main point isn't really directed towards you, I started with your post but wound up going off on a tangent thinking about all the doom and gloom I hear people talk about in regards to this type of system. 

I'm just getting at, allthough 2 different characters are faster, its still just fine to do it all on one character.  A few days here there of extra needed time will add up over time, but in the long run its not really that big of a deal.  I see people talk in such a way that it would be a big mistake to make a hybrid.  but if your not in a rush, and want it all in one character, there's nothing wrong with that. Over the long run you won't be hurting yourself at all.  You just make the long run take a little longer. 

Two characters is better short term.  but long term, for a player thats gonna stick around for a couple years the extra time becomes a non-issue.

If a new player asks about making a hybrid character, it can be misleading.  It can sound like they'll be wrecking their toon, or that its a huge mistake.  Its a set back, but if they really want a hybrid character, and they are aware that it will take longer to reach that point, but they will reach it, there's no reason why they shouldn't do it.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

I could eventually see a hybrid character being quite an asset.

A hybrid will have all the essentials to 5 or higher. Add on the skills to pilot a harvesting mech, with support combat skills including energy transfer, remote healing and a big old medium weapon for rainy days is nothing to scoff at.

I would argue that, long term, its actually a waste to spend EP on two characters, rather than one. I'm sure those whose spread their EP will eventually regret it.

Re: Don't like linked character EP

Well, these posts arent saying thats what I'm doing, but if you're only having 1 account you're likely best off that way because your points are primarily spent in places you have high attributes.  You wont really be spending much that you dont have attributes for, as this "well rounded" thing you speak of isnt really all that great.  A good miner is a good miner and having him be able to do 10% extra dps with the single missile launcher on his shoulder wont mean a damn thing.

Getting a termis stable means more than accumulator skills, which are mostly industial based extensions as well.  Getting enough cpu/reactor to fit everything, getting the prereqs to fit all of the lasers/expanders/rechargers/frame, lowering the cpu cost of lasers, etc etc etc.  IF you put all of those on a combat character, most have attributes in industry.

But for myself I will pretty much only put EP on 1 character per account, and have 1 specialty per character, barring very minor things like a sequer pilot or something.