Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

CRS wrote:

The thing is...stEVE is a very strong competition for this game which has medium graphics for me and a copied gameplay.

ANd this is why you shouldn't have posted anything to begin with.


This is closed beta. This game isn't even remotely close to what it is intended to be. Huge amounts of the game aren't even in place yet. Most of the animations have to be redone. I believe some of the graphix are being fixed as well. Right now, you're looking at probably 15% of the content a game like EVE has. But eve has been around for, what, 6-8 years now? Even then, just in the last 2-3 years EVE has released its high resolution graphix. It is impossable to compare a game to another game when one of them has been around for almost a decade and is pulling in thousands of times more money then the other.

The way Perpetuum is, and with the massive potential it has as a game, I would pay $15 a play it, right now. No questions asked. (The upcoming wipe would be my only deterrent).

You may see this as a bad graphics, and incomplete game, but anyone with a lot of EVE/other experience, or has been reading these forums for the past 6 months knows full well this game is no where near done.

Its even a little sad the devs are low on cash and even have to consider a release/open beta this early, but *** happens and they're doing their best.

This game shouldn't be F2P. If it is F2P this game will never reach its full potential nor will it create a lasting community that a game with fixed EP/Skill Point gain needs.

If this was F2P you'd get new players coming in all the time, getting rofl'd by the few players who stuck it out and have 500k EP and they would quit without paying because they can't pay to catch up, or they can't afford to play on the same level.

This game would completely fail as F2P.

27 Reply by CRS

  • CRS
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

I play/have played P2P games, so i don't have problem to pay trough internet or sum up even 50 euros per month.

I just wrote what i thought after i played the game for around 1-2 hours and i saw nothing that was gonna make me pay for it

You guys may be right...i'll w8 for the final release to make an opinion again...

e.g. the character portret is random i didn't care about it i just wanted to try the game

Last edited by CRS (2010-07-28 22:40:46)

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

Beta =/= demo, though some companies try to use it that way

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

this again.

reading over posts, it is easy to see which players have been playing the game for a short time, and those who have been played longer.

and the responses of the short players are really negligible. Every time someone points to eve as the reason for justification, it's bad.

move. forward. press w. This game is unique in many ways.

ABout having the game be pay to play, and then adding a micro-transaction shop on top of it for incredibly minor things: I would say it is almost like telling the dedicated subscribers that if they want new content, they have to pay more. Sure, that is not what you meant or intended, it's just how it usually works out, and that company gets flak from their community. I also agree with the resounding comments that free to play games are undesirable.

Lastly, if you come into this topic to say 'if this game is not free to play, i quit' then gtfo already. Beta testing a game, posting on their testing forums, helping them with their project... is not the place for you to make demands. True, it is general discussion, but telling the developers you won't pay for their product, while actively using it, is really disrespectful.

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

I'm noticing this trend more and more all over on gaming forums where players are praying to random mmo game company to make their game F2P/micropayment, because they think it will be free, as in, free.

AND THEN, when the companies actually do it, they go "oh geez, they are charging moneys for shiny epic armor, you don't have a chance against rich players, you have to grind for months when you don't pay for the premium content, screw this".

My eyes, they be rollin'.

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -- Bill Cosby

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

So taking a cue from your ever popular sig Zoom, can I say that by trying to please F2P players, you would be doing them a disservice big_smile

To ensure everyone enjoys the game, pay to play seems to be the consensus. Agree?

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

Agree smile

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -- Bill Cosby

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

DEV Zoom wrote:

Agree smile

Says one of the few who wont have to pay to play tongue

NPC Build Reference Sheet.  Copy to your bio in-game! - Detailed NPC Knowledge Base

-Edited GM Dehrios

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

Neoxx wrote:

Says one of the few who wont have to pay to play tongue

He does pay. He has to put up to people like you and has to remain polite at all times.

As to F2P vs P2P it's hard to stop people spending more than just on their account(s) so it should be fair that the developers gain from it instead of shady people that exploit people in sweatshops.

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

WARNING.. WARNING.. SENSE OF HUMOUR FAILURE DETECTED!
ABORT! ABORT!

It's very obvious that Neoxx is calling the devs slacks as a direct and hurtful insult. It's not like Neoxx has been here long enough to know how hard they all work or have built a rapport up with the developers through the game and forums. roll

Last edited by Alexander MkII (2010-07-29 09:28:32)

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

Ex Redux wrote:
CRS wrote:

The thing is...stEVE is a very strong competition for this game which has medium graphics for me and a copied gameplay.

ANd this is why you shouldn't have posted anything to begin with.

Dev Zoom wrote:

My eyes, they be rollin'.

...they hatin'...

*chuckles*

Black Prophecy supposedly will be released this year, I saw the E3 trailer. Space MMO with modular ships, it even has a fitting/equipment window for fitting them, I'm sure they got all their *** from Steve "as well" ;)  <--- massive sarcasm quotes!

Anyway, from a player point of view, I didn't like any F2P+Microtransaction games I've ever tried. Servers had a hardlimit (player count, can't login) and were full of random, bored people who didn't have a grasp of interest in playing "this game". I didn't like the (perceived) atmosphere there at all, none of the games could really keep me playing or make me paying.

I often read requests of an other game I played a lot and still occasionally play, to convert it to F2P with no better argument than "so I can play for free", hidden in poorly phrased sentences.

From a business point of view, I think I'm not qualified to reliably comment on it. But I can imagine that P2P is a desired, assured form of income directly related to subscriber count. F2P+Micro can be very fluctuating, even with a P2P option thrown in, it might attract a few more subscribers but I can't imagine it's more than a "good" game that is completely P2P with a 14 or 21 days free trial.

Also, yay, free sequer account for hauling my stuff \o/ if you think people who play games with a little more effort and seriousness to get fun out of it, wouldn't abuse the fact that you can theoretically have unlimited amounts of free accounts, you're being naive.

Have anything that can be abused, rest assured, there will be at least ONE person who will do it.

I can only conclude that I like P2P games more.

I don't just embrace insanity. I feel it up, french kiss it and then buy it a drink.

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

You loose equality when you go F2P because in the 100 F2P games ive played theres always a cash shop where u buy items and other crap (yes its their income) and guess what, The richest rule the game.Please dont destroy this game like all the others ive played. Im not rich lol but  i can afford 20 a month with ease.

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

This game will never make it as a p2p, as there a too many things a normal player cant handle with - first of all the complete destruction of a mech and ppls who loves it to grieve others destructing their mechs. Well, and not to forgett about GMs and DEVs who are supporting those, as they dont want to loose players, even if they are grieving kiddos...

I mean, cmon, its already a griever-clan...or it has been when i played last time, but as ppls are still complaining about this, i dont think that there were any changes.

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

I have a feeling you didn't really check what has changed. Could you give examples for griefing that happen recently?

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -- Bill Cosby

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

To be honest - no, but as you also asked for examples when 6 of 20 players online were guys on top-equiped mercs, searching for newbies to farm, i dont think that it makes sense to call names.

However, i deinstalled the game, due to the few number of players who had sense for moral and kindness (yeah, you all are ultra-hardcore-pros, you dont need to be kind, only the strongest survive, blah blah), though i really liked this game and enjoyed to play it until i had to go out in zones without turrets.

If this game survived the closed beta and comes into the open one, i will be happy to rejoin.

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

We fix things what players don't like - that's what betas are for. It's certainly not for everyone and they are welcome back again upon release if they still feel like it.

though i really liked this game and enjoyed to play it until i had to go out in zones without turrets.

This sounds like you were forced somehow. It's true that we encourage players to venture out into higher risk/higher rewards areas, but the choice will always be yours.

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -- Bill Cosby

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

I could bring up some arguments, but its already off-topic.

However, i hope it will be f2p, as the community would be bigger.

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

P2P is the best for this game.

It is time based, and if you make f2p, then people would just buy EP and *** like that, which is annoying.

Sounds like Kass hasnt played in a very long time.  Theres generally over 60 people on at all times, and upwards of 150 at peak time.  The 'griefing population' is certainly not a majority.

NPC Build Reference Sheet.  Copy to your bio in-game! - Detailed NPC Knowledge Base

-Edited GM Dehrios

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

DEV Zoom wrote:

We fix things what players don't like - that's what betas are for. It's certainly not for everyone and they are welcome back again upon release if they still feel like it.

though i really liked this game and enjoyed to play it until i had to go out in zones without turrets.

This sounds like you were forced somehow. It's true that we encourage players to venture out into higher risk/higher rewards areas, but the choice will always be yours.

I can totally comprehend what Kasseopea means and might have felt like.

*cough* and I can't help but notice that this might have been rather obvious. I think if you wanted a game that is solely based on PvP, the crafting should rely solely on combat, too. Not requiring some cheapass equipped mining robots that can be killed by a rookie bot. Like for example in Guild Wars, where you have to farm mobs and their loot for crafting materials and currency, it's all combat.

And I still strongly feel that you should seriously consider the game mechanics to provide a PvP-Free game experience for those who choose to without stabbing them in their faces saying "If you wanna be one of us, do PvP because you're not fun. Period." and it certainly would be a valuable part of the whole :)

I don't just embrace insanity. I feel it up, french kiss it and then buy it a drink.

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

For those of you who have played runes of magic and know who im talking about, cheers.

Heres my story on F2P

not comparing this game so dont drop ur tampon just yet, runes of magic is F2P (normal sword slashing spell throwing pvp game). So ive been playing for a year now and have some great gear and me and a few of my freinds went to go dominate some faces. We find this single player roaming around and gank him. I take that back, he murders all 5 of us so we lol and start bsing with him and we find out the guy is a CASINO owner/exec and says he plays at work cause there is nothing to do and he sleeps there because its a 24 hour job. Then procedes to tell us he spends a few grand a month/week on his character (which is believable if u see what he has and the prices in the game shop) o= (Ill stop you trolls here and say yes rich people play video games). Now my selfesteem has dropped 10 points trying to do the math in my head with how much i make and how it would take me years to compete with people like that. I didnt quit because of that but it did lessen my fun factor a bit. More money people dump into f2p the more they get the advantage. But for me i cant do that, im glad others can have fun doing that but its not for the majority imo.

Last edited by Osirus (2010-08-09 03:03:57)

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

buing EP is a very bad idea - a bunchof newbes runing around i h.mechs... It's like in eve ppl who buy chars with millions sp and then fly capital ships and generally makes everyone laugh and make no contribution to the game...
custom painting and other funny stuff is great.
The reason that U get 1EP/minute is to learn to play while ur char is getting better...

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

Hmm, if f2p, i would rather think about 20% bigger inventory or faster mining (5%). This wouldnt make you superior to other players, just more comfortable to play.

Ok, its not a real comparison, but League Of Legends is selling only stuff, you can get normally playing. The only cash-only thing are skins, which gives only optical bonuses.

As long as this game will deal fair with no-cash players and give cash-players enough to pose around, it will get more money then through subscriprion.

You should also think about all the competitors - noone will subscribe for 4-5 games, so you have to drag ppls from other p2p games, and atm is eve better.

Last edited by Kasseopea (2010-08-09 10:40:18)

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

Kasseopea wrote:

You should also think about all the competitors - noone will subscribe for 4-5 games, so you have to drag ppls from other p2p games, and atm is eve better.

I never played stEve myself, however, most people I hear talking about it say they long on to "do their skills" or something like that, and thats about it. I am thinking that the most likely thing to happen is that many people who enjoy stEve will come across to Perpetuum, to give it a test-drive, and see if it gives the player a breath of fresh air.

I tend to believe the Open Beta will help/hurt the game. It is then when many people will come along, with shortened attention spans, and see whether they like the game or not. The devs really need to sell their game during this time, so a pre-mature Open Beta could prove detrimental.

ps LoL is the castrated version of DotA.

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

Gloryhole wrote:

ps LoL is the castrated version of DotA.

Its the same, as if i would call perpetuum the castrated version of eve - they are 2 different games. Though i know, that DotA players became pretty frustrated when they realize, that they havent enough skill for L.o.L.

BTT: though eve is not newbie-friendly and rather an economical-simulation, it still can start a simple campaign like "2 months trial!!!!11eleven".

An another game, which is also "dangerous" is Black prophecy - it will be f2p and have better graphics.

Dont get me wrong, i really like this game, and i wish only success to it, but there is a good reason, why more and more games became f2p.

Re: F2P, P2P, Micropay...

first: HON is better than LoL. Very much so. But that is a different thread, in the 'general discussion' area.

second: As a long time player in eve, I can tell you simply what is wrong with it. 90% of the game time is spent doing menial labor, chores, not interesting stuff. Then 10% is interesting.
I quit that game for the same reason I quit many others... lack of interest over time.

WoW was different. WoW added new content, exploration was part of the game and even if it was just reading a new quest or seeing a new animal, there was brain stimulation. I quit WoW as well after 'completing' it and not finding new content anymore.

Eve and Perpetuum both are designed on 'build your own story' type game play. If you want to have 5000 mechs, or be in charge of a intricate and delicate supply chain, or be the terror of the PvP area, or be the best miner, or the CEO of a major corporation, or someone everyone likes, or just the average person who thinks he is contributing to his group if he only has 5 minutes a day to play... These types of games allow it.

The major hurdle they face is when the more active players explore most of the game content, 'complete' it, and run out of new challenges or experiences. As M2S puts it 'because we were bored' ... And it is a valid complaint.

--
Getting the thread back on topic:
Microtransactions will not be able to 'add' anything that will quench this boredom. It pretty much would only succeed in pissing off half of the subscribers, giving the devs a small amount of money (remember they have to spend $ to code this stuff), or *maybe* add content in the form of instanced content or additional locations. These would normally be called 'expansions' in the pay to play model. Truth is, subscribers guarantee that the $ is being generated for these expansions. Microtransactions can fall short on paying them for their labor. That is a big factor.

To summarize, the developers have hinted at several game elements that have yet to be added. All we have so far is the basics. And we're already at the point where Eve has been save territory control. And that's just around the corner. As long as the dev's here don't run out of steam making new content (or think just porting simcity like tyrannis is a valid expansion) then we have a good game franchise here to enjoy and mature our accounts while playing.

End of the day, there's a lot more 'play' to this than there ever was in eve. And they're on track to keep making it better. No to F2P, they deserve our money.

*edit*

there is a good reason, why more and more games became f2p.

And that reason is because, over time, more and more games are produced. Really, the reason a game developer chooses f2p over p2p are greatly varied. And rarely does it work with over-time improvement to account wealth accumulation market simulation character development -type games.

calling perpetuum a castrated version of eve, when one is a beta and the other is nearly 7 years old, is a bit unfair. Comparing castor (beta eve) with perpetuum would be a hands down no contest victor.

Thread continuation: Who remembers Earth & Beyond? Custom paint jobs, instanced zones, mmo spaceships and aswd controls. Failed after a year. Learn from mistakes? Don't focus gameplay around paint jobs? discuss.

Last edited by Kwitch (2010-08-09 11:26:14)

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"