Topic: (HOW-TO) Market

This guide is written for anyone who wants to learn how to make money on the market. It is useful for newer players, and has some advice for maximizing profits. It should not be considered the end-all guide, rather a great starting point for young entrepreneurs. Know in advance that market trading is not for everyone, make sure you want to do this before investing the time and effort in it.

Beginning:
Depending on where you are in your career, you may need to acquire a bit of start-up capital before you can expect a sizable income return from using the market. If you have your start-up capital prepared, skip to section: Skills

So before you begin earning money on the market, you need to have start-up capital to invest and see a return on. A very easy non-combat way of doing this is with Transport assignments. This also has the added benefit of introducing you to the layout of the markets and how to travel to each terminal.

Choose the transport assignment that only has 1 data console required to deliver if you are still in your starter Arkhe. If you managed to upgrade to an argano for it's larger 7.5 U cargo capacity, you can accept the 2 data console assignments (As this will require 6 U instead of 3 U).

My starter tip here is to create a circuit visiting all three terminals, running cargo assignments for each. You have to invest Extension Points into both parallel assignments rank 2 and have the larger cargo capacity (9 U or greater) to maximize the effectiveness of this type of route. Essentially, you accept both assignments from your first stop that require 1 data console to be delivered. Notice, it requires two separate destinations. Travel to the first one and complete the assignment, making sure to pick up both of the transport assignments and continue on your route. From here on, every stop you make completes 2 assignments rather than one.

9 U might be difficult for a new pilot to achieve at first, so stick with the assignment size you are comfortable managing. Once you reach Sequer, you can run the 3 console assignments and make very reasonable income, even in-between your new trading career downtime.

Skills:
So we have our start-up money, and we want to start making money on the market with it. Are we ready? Hardly. Just as extensions exist that improve and facilitate killing NPC's for NIC; there are extensions we need to think about before we just jump right into things.

Open your extensions and navigate to Finances. I am ranking these skills based on importance to acquire.

Accounting 2 of 10
This skill is valuable to us because it reduces the amount we lose every time we make a market order. The fine by the NPC's for making this order is static, it doesn't increase depending on the size of our orders or our profits. It's not very valuable, but it helps save NIC.

Basic/Advanced/Expert Marketing 7-9 of 10
This all-important skill allows you to make more sell orders. This means if you have goods to sell, you want them on the market so they have the chance to make you money. This is only marginally less important that purchasing due to the fact that you need goods in order to sell them, and this skill only pertains to selling.

Basic/Advanced/Expert Purchasing 8-10 of 10
This is the skill you immediately want to level up. You can make buy orders up to the maximum quantity as this skill permits. Word of caution though...you don't need more orders than you are capable of managing, or than you can ever fully use. If you are starting out, a reasonable resting place would be reaching advanced and waiting until you run out of order capability before continuing to increase this.

Tax Reduction 3-7 of 10
This skill modifies the actual payout you receive after another player purchases your goods. Very important, but not initially. When you get into selling large amounts of expensive items, the value of this extension really shines. First starting out with 100-1000 NIC trades, not so much.

(sidetrack skilltrains)

Recycling, Basic Repair, & Discounted insurance.
Items may be on sale for less NIC than they can be recycled for. Your NPC farming friend might have modules you can pick up for him that need to be repaired (very minor NIC savings) and sometimes you can purchase a bot and insure/destroy it for more NIC than you could sell it for. These are all alternate ideas though, focus on direct trades for 95% of your income.

And as a last note regarding extensions...if you aren't sure if you should get it yet, save your ep! You can always upgrade it later, but you might find out you really need something in the meantime. Get in the habit of thinking out your actions in advance, helps profit of trades as well as spent ep, and many other useful applications.

Region
This topic is easy to cover. Truhold-Markson Alpha on New Virginia is essentially the centralized trading hub for the beta thus far. It has the most active market trades, and the majority of players tend to live in it. That does not mean you should only consider that single terminal for your trades! There is plenty of profits to be made in other markets, or even cross-market trading! Think about the first modules you found, yet could not use. Remember that you just sold them to the market, whatever the price available was. This happens constantly, and is a great source of low priced goods. I think you can figure out what to do with these goods once you get them.

Trading:
Finally you say! We are now ready to begin trading. There are several concepts to master, but we will cover them and discuss their merits individually. Remember: What works for one person may not always work, or might not work on a long time frame. So with everything, thinking profitably is the best way to profit.

Margins are the difference between the higher selling price, and the lower buying price. If an item has a reasonably large margin, it probably is worth trying to get in on the action. That said, don't expect to be the only person reaching for a piece of the pie. Many traders focus primarily on margin trades, and if they have a lot of time may sit at the market window and make sure their orders are the best priced. There are ways around this.

Range is the total amount of items available to each player to purchase from a single terminal. Players in one terminal might not be able to buy the item they want from a different terminal, but if they are wise they can view the distant markets and price shop. Most players will not buy the cheapest item if it is only marginally cheaper, yet would require a large trip to acquire. Use your better judgment here, and only compete with prices you feel threaten your markets.

Faction Area means exactly as it sounds. If you are in Attalica, you can expect to see many Nuimqol players running around shooting things. Don't they use EM weapons? And don't those use Slug ammo? A+B= It might be profitable to sell Slug ammo here. Placing a buy order in a different faction area for cheap, hauling it here, and selling it for less than otherwise available would give you a nice profit for a small bit of legwork. Making the volume greater makes it very profitable, and is what you want to aim for.

Camping is when someone is constantly refreshing their orders to be the best priced, in hopes that they will win the items when they are sold, and the NIC when someone buys one of their items. There are really three options to fight them. Let them keep their camped markets (bad), focus on trades that require traveling to pick up items and sell them elsewhere at prices the campers don't want to sell at (good), or push an item's margins to very low amounts, pushing away competition (best). Any NIC is better than zero, and pushing away competition like this earns you a larger slice of the pie.

As you work out these trade skills, you may master it faster or slower than others. Don't be discouraged, and keep it up!

Ultimately, you want to maximize your profits based on the time you spend on your market spark. You can make just as much money as the camper, for spending 1/20th of the time. I hope this guide helps, and starts you on your successful endeavors. If you have any additional questions, I'm happy to answer them or update this guide as necessary.

Changelog
•Added color coding to skills to show emphasis of important (Thanks Neoxx)
•Added 'jita' esq location section called Region to help explain inter-markets (Thanks Lord SPAM)

Last edited by Kwitch (2010-07-05 01:38:36)

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

Good read.  A few suggestions and comments, though.

1. Getting higher levels in parallel assignments can be expensive.   If you dont have access to a Sequer, you're best not going above level 1-2, especially since you cant carry more than 6U in an Argano at best.  It is a decent way to take money, but like all things, it takes time and investment to make it more valuable.

3. I would recommend leveling Marketing/Purchasing to advanced level 1 asap.  It will give 10 orders in buy and sell, and you can quickly get more cheaply if you need it later on.

2. Tax Reduction skill is quite important, even as much to say put off the Accounting skill until it is quite high.  You are only paying a few hundred NIC a week for all orders, where as your Tax will always take a cut of your total price.  Even at smaller amounts, taxes can get pretty high very quickly.

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

Nice guide!       I am still wondering what station will be the "jita" station of this game wink

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

Lord SPAM wrote:

Nice guide!       I am still wondering what station will be the "jita" station of this game wink

TMA.  Best refinery ftw.

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

A very good guide. I've learnt a little from it and it's a good way to start a trading career.

+1 for effort. A lot to read but it's very complete.

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

Here is a picture of what my transaction log looks like when I log in:

[img]http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2715/perpetuum0052.jpg[/img]

When I am playing this game, I am constantly hearing 'cha-ching' of money coming in.

It is a great feeling, and I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to experience more of this game than just 'afk npc farming'. Please ask questions if there is anything here you think is missing so that you too can do this, I am happy to help tech or make this guide better.

I am thinking of making some examples of market trading to help everyone out. Would this help younger players or less experienced market players understand how to apply these ideas?

Last edited by Kwitch (2010-07-05 01:46:00)

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

I have made a small and simple guide picture, to give you an example of what I mean.

Today's example uses Standard Missile Launcher Tunings, use the image below as a guide.

While stationed in ICS Alpha, I show the market info for the tuning type. I look and see that there are no buyers for them. I figure this is probably because since I am in ICS Alpha, where people mostly use EM guns, there is little demand for such item. I know that there is plenty of demand for them at Truhold though!

So a little bit of research shows that the absolute lowerst NPC buy order is 42,750.00 NIC. That means I could buy them for any value under that, taking in taxation and accounting fees in my figures, and still profit. Just to move them from A to B. The average NPC farmer won't take them there himself, he just wants to enter terminal, unload all of his treasure, pickup more ammo, and deploy again. We can be patient and profit from his work, he becomes our employee.

[img]http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1355/example1t.jpg[/img]

Eventually, with enough planning and trial and error, you will have trade routes like this set up and be profiting fairly easily. When the beta goes public, you will see even more employees and items to trade, and even more NIC from missions in the pockets of employees, who want to spend it on the items you are selling.

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

the problem I see with playing the market doesn't exist yet.  the problem is that there are, essentially, 6 stations.  6 whole stations.  and you can see every one of the markets from any of the stations.  which means when (if) there are 500 people playing the market, all the opportunity vanishes.  the ones who stick it out the longest end up winning, but the price wars in the meantime will mean everything will be cheap and not give you a huge profit.  I am generalizing in the worst way but it should be considered.

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

Quotidian Grind wrote:

the problem I see with playing the market doesn't exist yet.  the problem is that there are, essentially, 6 stations.  6 whole stations.  and you can see every one of the markets from any of the stations.  which means when (if) there are 500 people playing the market, all the opportunity vanishes.  the ones who stick it out the longest end up winning, but the price wars in the meantime will mean everything will be cheap and not give you a huge profit.  I am generalizing in the worst way but it should be considered.

Agree, small planet makes for high competition.
Disagree, market exists. People saying market doesn't exist aren't helping.
Disagree, A lot of people don't check range when buying/selling. My wallet is an indicator of that.
Disagree, 500 people playing the market... I've not even seen more than 100 online at once.
Disagree, Opportunity is not just fighting for best price. There is a very large amount of opportunity at the moment. Also as indicated by my comment about camping, it's not the only way to push away competitors.
Agree, everything cheap and not giving a huge profit is possible. Also, exactly how it should be.

Look, in a perfect economy, items aren't produced in excess. Needs are filled by the products that are made, and no one is left for wanting. The movement of goods in such a system offers little room for inflation or surprise.

Now someone like me loves it when the market is askew of the perfect model. It means there is more money to be made on morons and lazy people. And I have been. Doesn't mean that's how it has to be. The sky is falling = The markets are dead.

Truth is, I don't want people 'cutting into' my market profits or slice of the pie. But I know it's better for the markets, and the game's beta period, if more people participated in it. I'm trying to be selfless with sharing as much as I can about how newer players could get started. I hope this helps them.


--
Playing the markets... In a game where there are NPC seeded buy orders... And you always can recycle non-selling goods for nearly same price... is 100% impossible to loose. The only reason not to do it is 'The markets are dead'. We've covered that point though.

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

i'm tired and admit I didn't read the full post but what I'm talking about is when the game is live, not beta.  right now it's great.

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

Kwitch wrote:

Disagree, A lot of people don't check range when buying/selling. My wallet is an indicator of that.

I like your posts and trying to help people, but your pompous comments are pretty unfounded, as I looked at your log and its nothing special, and you're certainly not rich by any means, especially compared to what you could do just farming and selling to npc's.

I do market stuff part time (10 sells, 5 buys) and I can make that easy without much time put into it.  Its fine if you want to help people, but declaring yourself as the end all be all of marketing is just wrong, especially when you provide those screenshots.

Edit:  oh, and its not that people dont check other markets, its just that its convenient to make you do the transport of their items for a lower sell price, and in essence thats what you're making money doing.

I often settle for a lower price at the station I'm at because its convenient, but that doesnt mean I'm not checking the other stations for nearly every transaction I do.

Last edited by Neoxx (2010-07-06 08:39:54)

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

I love it when you post in my topics big_smile  Criticism is healthy.

I'm not the end all be all. If I sound enthusiastic or encouraged based on my posts, it's meant to imply that doing what I do is easy. I don't want to make a guide that scares people off or they think after reading it 'that sounds too hard'.

I made that profit in that image in my sleep. I spent about 3 minutes making it. You could probably make a lot more money than me, but likely spend a lot more time as well. I think my profit per minute is higher, and that's how I judge my success. Whatever makes you happy with how you play, that's what is important.

I have a question:

declaring yourself as the end all be all of marketing is just wrong

Did I say, or imply this? If so, please show me where so I can correct it. I want people to read this and go 'Ah, that is a good point!' or 'That sounds easy, let me try' and the result is more people using the market. Everyone always says 'the markets are in closed beta, don't bother, they are worthless' etc. etc. My goal with this post is to say 'No, they are not dead. You can profit here.'

Understand my sincerity here as I type this. I admit I can be arrogant when I think I'm right. If I'm wrong though, I'm quick to admit it and happy to change or apologize. Show me where I have offended your sensibilities and I promise to make amends.

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

Neoxx wrote:

I do market stuff part time (10 sells, 5 buys) and I can make that easy without much time put into it.

I take it you're the cretin who wants the boat-load of titan ore at 0.3 nic per. You make baby Jesus cry sad

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

Gloryhole wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

I do market stuff part time (10 sells, 5 buys) and I can make that easy without much time put into it.

I take it you're the cretin who wants the boat-load of titan ore at 0.3 nic per. You make baby Jesus cry sad

Im always willing to make personal deals with people for higher prices.  I havnt bought titan before so I may raise it if it doesnt buy fast enough.

Re: (HOW-TO) Market

Neoxx wrote:
Gloryhole wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

I do market stuff part time (10 sells, 5 buys) and I can make that easy without much time put into it.

I take it you're the cretin who wants the boat-load of titan ore at 0.3 nic per. You make baby Jesus cry sad

Im always willing to make personal deals with people for higher prices.  I havnt bought titan before so I may raise it if it doesnt buy fast enough.


Npc Price working from commodities is around 0.78 nic per titan ore.  this is more for the poor fools who end up filling your buy orders.